I'm surprised

[allempty]

In Korea, many people think Ironmace did something wrong. Of course, like people all over the world, "Nexon=Evil" and that's true. However, through Dave the Diver, one of Nexon's Mintrocket Projects, Koreans are beginning to acknowledge that they have a great interest in fostering indie games. In fact, DTD is the second, and the first is DAD. But oh god! This is what happened! 😂

Also, looking around reddit, most gamers are praising Ironmace in 'no evil is forgiven' mode with limited information. I fully understand their feelings. But it can't tolerate theft. Korea police raided Ironmace's office. Most of them know that the search has ended without evidence, but in reality, they have obtained evidence and are analyzing evidence at the 'Gyeonggi Nambu Police Station'. this is a fact.

Actually, there are many things I want to say, but I want to say just one thing. There is no absolute good in the world, and there is no absolute bad. Take a look at the various information and make a wise decision.

Also, although not highly reliable, there is a Korean wiki page that provides detailed information about this incident. Try using a translator. It will help you get the context of the case.

Here. https://t.ly/TI6H1

[BigJ]

Sir, that source is an opinion article with no source to polie reports, please, don-t let media manipulate you and let this be resolved in court without injecting yourself into a place you are not needed.

[allempty]

Originally posted by BigJ:

Sir, that source is an opinion article with no source to polie reports, please, don-t let media manipulate you and let this be resolved in court without injecting yourself into a place you are not needed.

you right. read context.

[Jaggervice]

Yikes. You said it yourself. Not highly reliable. Reading through that gobbledygook, it's pretty much all speculation. There is no information there that isn't just stuff that people are blurting out all over the place as it is. There are also a few things in there that are just false or contradictory.

They state they basically created the genre with project P3. I can't even understand the level of delusion needed to believe this.

It states that Nexon stopped the p3 project, then later says that the project has still been in development. This is interesting because you'd think that after all this time, they'd have more than the photos they showcased the project with years ago. But they seemingly don't have anything at all besides that.

It says despite Nexon presenting various evidence, they have still been ridiculed. Maybe that's because they haven't shown any evidence. Except for a couple photos and a video that, again, were showcased years ago. DaD has been public for 6+ months, yet it was only just this past month that Nexon decided to start trying to copyright P3 code and assets.

It tries to state that something was found during the raids, except doesn't point to a source or any kind of evidence of that happening.

To top it all off, a lot of it seems to be focused on the publicity, what people have been saying about the situation and Nexon. Paying attention to everything that's been said in the discord and on reddit. As if the entire thing is written by a Pro-Nexon shill.

[allempty]

Originally posted by Veskelle:

Yikes. You said it yourself. Not highly reliable. Reading through that gobbledygook, it's pretty much all speculation. There is no information there that isn't just stuff that people are blurting out all over the place as it is. There are also a few things in there that are just false or contradictory.

They state they basically created the genre with project P3. I can't even understand the level of delusion needed to believe this.

It states that Nexon stopped the p3 project, then later says that the project has still been in development. This is interesting because you'd think that after all this time, they'd have more than the photos they showcased the project with years ago. But they seemingly don't have anything at all besides that.

It says despite Nexon presenting various evidence, they have still been ridiculed. Maybe that's because they haven't shown any evidence. Except for a couple photos and a video that, again, were showcased years ago. DaD has been public for 6+ months, yet it was only just this past month that Nexon decided to start trying to copyright P3 code and assets.

It tries to state that something was found during the raids, except doesn't point to a source or any kind of evidence of that happening.

To top it all off, a lot of it seems to be focused on the publicity, what people have been saying about the situation and Nexon. Paying attention to everything that's been said in the discord and on reddit. As if the entire thing is written by a Pro-Nexon shill.

Not all information on this wiki is fictitious, there is some useful truthful information. Check the source for truthful information. This will help with the lack of timeline. The reason I wrote this article is that gamers outside of Korea have only limited information than I thought. whether it's real or fake. There is so much information (including rumors) coming out from inside Korea, and I hope many people will confirm it. There is a lot of information, such as comments from Nexon's internal staff, timeline, and HYBE IM's involvement, and I think it will help you get an overview of the incident.

Of course we should take a neutral stance and I think the focus should be on getting 'more information' assuming we are not big fans of Nexon or Ironmace. Thank you for your understanding.

[넓4734]

Right now Dark and Darker Discord and Reddit are so severely oppressed of information that there is a lot of unknown information.

[CanVox]

For me it comes down to two facts:

* Nexon's legal complaint has lies in it (they say that only the development team knew about the project but Ironmace was able to produce press kits sent out to the media so that was false)
* The fact that they issued a DMCA. They are already enjoined in lawsuits against ironmace in various forms. They had the ability to ask the judge for an injunction that would prevent ironmace from selling the game. The fact that they haven't received one means that either the judge said "no" or their lawyers didn't bother asking because they felt the judge would say "no". Issuing a DMCA is just throwing up chafe because they can't get what they want in court.

[Low_IQ_Huan]

Originally posted by CanVox:

For me it comes down to two facts:

* Nexon's legal complaint has lies in it (they say that only the development team knew about the project but Ironmace was able to produce press kits sent out to the media so that was false)
* The fact that they issued a DMCA. They are already enjoined in lawsuits against ironmace in various forms. They had the ability to ask the judge for an injunction that would prevent ironmace from selling the game. The fact that they haven't received one means that either the judge said "no" or their lawyers didn't bother asking because they felt the judge would say "no". Issuing a DMCA is just throwing up chafe because they can't get what they want in court.

wth are you talking about ? The development team left from nexon to ironmace, of course they knew about the project.

Issuing a DMCA is standard procedure in a case like this one, its nothing out of the ordinary, you dont file an injunction for a copyright issue.

please inform yourself before you post on stuff you dont know about.

[Jaggervice]

Originally posted by Paul isn't pertinent:

wth are you talking about ? The development team left from nexon to ironmace, of course they knew about the project.

Issuing a DMCA is standard procedure in a case like this one, its nothing out of the ordinary, you dont file an injunction for a copyright issue.

please inform yourself before you post on stuff you dont know about.

Hmm, yeah, what?

DMCA is basically an alternative to injunctions, but injunctions can be carried out for copyright issues, both temporary and permanent. Temporary happens before a case is settled, while permanent can happen after.

[roar!]

oh, another nexon employee.
here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx-yi57cdyQ

[Snooze]

Originally posted by roar!:

oh, another nexon employee.
here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx-yi57cdyQ

Oh look, another Ironmace simp.

Originally posted by tim.:

Fine, you want to act like i'm misrepresenting and being dishonest, let's hop into the DMCA from Nexon to Steam since you want to be a bozo. I don't expect YOU to be swayed, you're obviously in so deep that even if Ironmace flat out said they stole assets you wouldn't believe it. You'd probably say they were paid off or threatened. Instead, this aims to convince people who are actually open to facts. None of this is meant to say that Ironmace did anything wrong, just that it's not a mystery why Nexon would have legitimate grounds for investigation

Let's start with the opening appeal:

"Nexon has a good faith belief that Dark and Darker is infringing Nexon’s copyrights in the P3 Game. Nexon also has good faith belief that Dark and Darker was developed by (1) stealing the source codes, art resources, and build files of the P3 Game and (2) using without authorization the stolen source codes, art resources, and build files as the foundation for Dark and Darker. Key employees, including the Managing Director as well as the Founder and Representative Director of Ironmace, were key team members that worked on and had access to Nexon’s P3 Game. At least one person (notably, the current Managing Director of Ironmace) was dismissed from Nexon for transferring proprietary company files related to the P3 Project to his private server prior to leaving Nexon."

Right out the gate the outline pretty neatly where their main contention lies, and huh, that seems to follow pretty closely to what i was saying, doesn't it? Ex-employee(s), one of notably was a MANAGING DIRECTOR, conveniently banding together and making a game remarkably close to a title they were working on while at Nexon, that seems more than reasonable enough to launch an investigation. At least one of those people even had an access point directly to Nexon's servers while working there, as well?

Obviously that doesn't PROVE anything, but it's a VERY strong starting point.

They continue, in response to the question; "Identify the copyrighted work that you claim is being infringed."

"Nexon owns registered copyrights to the source codes, art resources, and build files of the P3 Game, which have been registered with the U.S. Copyright Office: (Cleric, Ranger, , Barbarian, etc.)"

Obviously, like i said before, everyone agrees that the classes they attempted to protect are generic fantasy characters and that trying to pretend that they own those concepts is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. However, the key assertion here is that they hold copyrights to the SOURCE CODE, ART, and BUILD files of those characters. In otherwords, if you took those specific elements that makes those character operate and used them as your own, that would be copyright violation, NOT using the names or likeness of the characters. Actually a pretty fair point IMO, and Nexon is accusing IM of using those driving elements based on their opening statements.

Later in the document, they expand on specific individuals allegedly taking data relating to P3 without authorization.

"X unlawfully transferred and disclosed approximately 11,602 files of the data related to the P3 Project
• From April 2021 to June 18, 2021, 2,747 build files for the P3 Project
were unlawfully transferred from the Nexon’s Jenkins server to X's private server located in Seosan without obtaining
authorization.
• From April 7, 2021 to May 11, 2021, 1,719 build files for the P3 Project
were unlawfully transferred to X's private server built on a home PC
without obtaining authorization.
• From May 31, 2021 to June 23, 2021, the data related to the P3 Project,
including source code and art resources, were unlawfully transferred to
X's private server in Seosan without obtaining authorization over 20
instances."

That's a pretty substantial allegation, and very much reinforces Nexon's suspicions that Dark and Darker was made, at least in part, by using original files owned by Nexon without permission.

Following that, they make a list of files in Dark and Darker that are IDENTICAL to P3's files, as many have pointed out a lot of these are very generic and even basic Unreal file structures as well as Asset store items. There's a spreadsheet out there but i wasn't able to access it. View Kira's recent Dark and Darker video, he scrolls through it a bit there. This in itself doesn't seem to be conclusive as to whether or not Ironmace stole the files, but again, this adds very much to why Nexon would have reasonable suspicion.

The final part of their claim dives further into the more broad accusations of genre stealing, but it's clear that this isn't their pivotal claim and that the focus is much more specific, and like i said earlier isn't really a strong point against Ironmace as anyone could make a game with those broad design elements.

So again, factoring in

A) The fact that Ironmace is composed of ex-Nexon devs who worked on a game remarkably similar in both aesthetics, mechanics, and overall game design,

B) The fact that some of those same ex devs had direct access to Nexon server files from their home for the project Nexon is claiming they stole

B) The fact that Dark and Darker has MANY files with similar naming structures as the files P3 used,

it's very clear to see why Nexon would think Ironmace stole from their P3 project. It's not "Similar genre, similar aesthetics", it's "This looks like it's literally using code and assets from a project they were working on while employed by us."

As Ironmace claims, they built the game from the ground up. I hope that's true. I want them to be the winners here. But pretending Nexon is just money grabbing to stifle competition as the sole reason this is happening is ignorant, copium even. Calling people paid shills for pointing that out is even more so. Regardless, i've shared my piece. Think whatever you like.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y2PJx5am6k3quSuXWe6cw-MuOvAPn4hl/view link to the file in case anyone hasn't seen it.

[CanVox]

Originally posted by Paul isn't pertinent:

Originally posted by CanVox:

For me it comes down to two facts:

* Nexon's legal complaint has lies in it (they say that only the development team knew about the project but Ironmace was able to produce press kits sent out to the media so that was false)
* The fact that they issued a DMCA. They are already enjoined in lawsuits against ironmace in various forms. They had the ability to ask the judge for an injunction that would prevent ironmace from selling the game. The fact that they haven't received one means that either the judge said "no" or their lawyers didn't bother asking because they felt the judge would say "no". Issuing a DMCA is just throwing up chafe because they can't get what they want in court.

wth are you talking about ? The development team left from nexon to ironmace, of course they knew about the project.

Issuing a DMCA is standard procedure in a case like this one, its nothing out of the ordinary, you dont file an injunction for a copyright issue.

please inform yourself before you post on stuff you dont know about.

You missed the word "only".

[David]

Originally posted by Paul isn't pertinent:

Originally posted by CanVox:

For me it comes down to two facts:

* Nexon's legal complaint has lies in it (they say that only the development team knew about the project but Ironmace was able to produce press kits sent out to the media so that was false)
* The fact that they issued a DMCA. They are already enjoined in lawsuits against ironmace in various forms. They had the ability to ask the judge for an injunction that would prevent ironmace from selling the game. The fact that they haven't received one means that either the judge said "no" or their lawyers didn't bother asking because they felt the judge would say "no". Issuing a DMCA is just throwing up chafe because they can't get what they want in court.

wth are you talking about ? The development team left from nexon to ironmace, of course they knew about the project.

Issuing a DMCA is standard procedure in a case like this one, its nothing out of the ordinary, you dont file an injunction for a copyright issue.

please inform yourself before you post on stuff you dont know about.

He said Ironmace weren't the only ones because there was a media press kit.