Does anybody else feel like the Cleric is kinda lacking in PvP?

[BogTrotter]

I love playing clerics in Dungeons and Dragons and I love playing clerics in Dark and Darker but while I understand that the cleric is more of a support than a front liner in PvP, I still feel like clerics should be a little better.

One of my biggest concerns is a cleric's lack of ranged attacks, specifically in PvP. all of the other classes seem to have solutions to ranged combat. Wizards have ranged spells, rangers have bows (of course) even barbarians can use throwing axes, and fighters can use literally any weapon they want (throwing axes, throwing knives, bows, Xbows etc.). Clerics just dont seem to have anything to deal with long ranged PvP attackers besides judgement which is a pretty short range and a comparatively long cool down time to other long range attacks.

Another thing that bothers me about clerics is the lack of weapon variety. clerics can only use maces, two handed war mauls, and a quarterstaff for melee weapons (which i love bonk sticks are cool and all). it would be nice to be able to dual wield a spellcasting focus, and a weapon like the wizards do with a crystal ball and a dagger. it would maybe be cool to have a hatchet on the off hand and the spellbook in the main hand? I know that this game draws some inspiration from Dungeon and Dragons, and I just wanted to point out that in DnD 5e clerics are profficient with simple weapons like hand axes, daggers so I dont think that it would be too unreasonable for a Cleric to be able to use things like that.

Anyways, im just trying to provide my feedback for the game. I love Dark and Darker and hope that this discussion/ input can be helpful to the developers in some way.

[Hi, I'm Ari.]

Steam Discussions is so funny.

Cleric is by no means lacking. Use Protection pot, Divine Weapon, and Protection spell before a fight and you'll be a goddvmn menace. Massive DR from armor, fantastic damage output from Flanged Mace often 2 tapping lighter classes when buffed, and Prots from pots and spells stack, netting you 137 health for the duration of the fight. Combined with your phys res which can easily reach 40%, that's over 220~ effective HP.

No way is Cleric weak in PVP. It's argued by a lot of top players as one of the strongest classes in the game. Cleric is obviously weaker if you don't have the opportunity to pre-buff, but if you are given the 6 or so seconds you become a straight up menace.

I main primarily Cleric and Barbarian, lvl 15-20'd all other classes. Cleric is by no means weak.

Also seriously... You guys think Wizard and Barbarian are B tier... Barbarian a "glass cannon"....? -- Christ do any of you look at the stats of who you're playing? Barbarian can get a 142 health without stat buffs and a decent 30%ish DR without huge investment. Combined with one of their abilities debuffing peoples phys. damage by 25% they're very easily the tankiest class in the game, what are you people even on??

[Oni]

Goblin Gamer の投稿を引用：

I guess if the cleric is B tier, then I am not the only one who thinks that clerics are lacking

judgement is big damage with +magic damage, however they have 0 ranged options besides that and can't pressure a ranged advantage hallway, obviously clerics are a bit better in PvE though and their buffs can boost melee damage

Orpheus の投稿を引用：

Oni の投稿を引用：

PvP Tier list imo

S Tier: Fighter

A Tier: Ranger, Barbarian

B Tier: Cleric, Wizard

C Tier: Rogue

I'm curious, why is Fighter S tier?

- Fighter is the best at PvE and PvP imo
- Has the best consistency with positioning and RNG in PvP scenarios
- Has Sprint on very fast cooldown
- Can out footsie melees with polearms
- Can outshoot ranger and wizard with crossbow headshot
- Hits almost as hard as Barbarian
- Can get massive damage reduction, best armor in the game
- Is strongest double buffed Haste and Divine Strike with Sprint, nearly unstoppable
- Has access to crossbows that can one tap squishies
- Has access to throwing axes that can 2 tap squishies and pressure other melee
- Can self regen 50% of HP mid-fight with Second Wind
- Wins trades & footsies against all other classes in most situations with equal gear
- Hard counters rogue in every situation by trading hits or crossbow when runs away
- Fighters only weakness is -magic defense on armor, a fully prepped archer with traps, or other Fighters
- Fighter with Invisibility potions do better ambushes than Rogue (applies to Barb too)

although this is just my opinion, theres also an element of RNG that can sway the fight in either favour

3 Fighters in a Squad, in BiS gear, full kit inventory, in a positional advantage are theoretically immortal

if i were the devs i would nerf sprint cooldown by 50%, full plate fighter should not be running just as fast as naked rogue

also if you listen to this while you play it increases your skill by 200% with any class

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFOfSlDCwYw

[NotaKai.exe]

damn, I thought cleric was decent, maybe you aint using your spells much?

[BogTrotter]

NotaKai.exe の投稿を引用：

damn, I thought cleric was decent, maybe you aint using your spells much?

im usually not. sometimes you just dont have time to buff when you are being rushed.

[Inkersod]

Yeah as cleric you CAN hit as hard as barb and kill people BUT only if you are buffed, you need to spend around 8 seconds(less with stats) of casting + drinking beer, and what if you don't have those 8 seconds and got caught with your pants down? you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ by classes that don't need none of this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...
While i'm winning with my Cleric 1v1 most of the fights while pre buffed and i have fun doing that, i find it so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying spending around 6 sec buffing just to be on par with barbs and fighters.
P.S. god i wish there were Paladins

[Nik-Naks]

started a cleric today. Level 1.. Got into a game and found a spellbook from one of the skeleton mages. Ran into a Barb and a warrior. Green geared, killed them both in grey gear..

Clerics hits are heavy.

Use smite to win.

[BogTrotter]

Inkersod の投稿を引用：

Yeah as cleric you CAN hit as hard as barb and kill people BUT only if you are buffed, you need to spend around 8 seconds(less with stats) of casting + drinking beer, and what if you don't have those 8 seconds and got caught with your pants down? you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ by classes that don't need none of this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...
While i'm winning with my Cleric 1v1 most of the fights while pre buffed and i have fun doing that, i find it so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying spending around 6 sec buffing just to be on par with barbs and fighters.
P.S. god i wish there were Paladins

i agree

[NO THIS IS HATTRICK]

I haven't played cleric seriously yet, but from having died to many clerics as a fighter and based on what other people are saying I think they are decent.

The buffs, heals and anti-undead spells make it sound like they excel at clearing dungeons solo, which is currently something that's near impossible for fighters without a lot of starting gear/healing items. I still haven't managed to consistently solo wraith as a fighter, except for that one time it was bugged and I got lucky. Not to mention all the heals the cleric has lets you pretty much stay inside the red plague area for an extended period and disengage from fights to find alternative routes to escape.

The lack of range should be fine considering how many escape routes and walls to hide behind there are. You should be able to run away from a long straight corridor and double-back the long way around behind them to get close, since I generally do that with fighter anyway.

[BigJ]

Don't forget cleric can deal 68 damage with a morning star if you combine beer, divine strike and bless with a purple morning star and a single +2 on all attributes armor piece. That is close to 1 shotting mages.

[Osiris Zoran]

Cleric really shines in Trios where they can keep their team up and buff and help against undead.

With that said, my cleric is lvl 11 now and ive gotten some kills in pvp. judgement is amazing

[BogTrotter]

BigJ の投稿を引用：

Don't forget cleric can deal 68 damage with a morning star if you combine beer, divine strike and bless with a purple morning star and a single +2 on all attributes armor piece. That is close to 1 shotting mages.

thats literally a perfect scenario with top tier gear versus the squishiest class in the game. not a very solid arguement

[BigJ]

Goblin Gamer の投稿を引用：

BigJ の投稿を引用：

Don't forget cleric can deal 68 damage with a morning star if you combine beer, divine strike and bless with a purple morning star and a single +2 on all attributes armor piece. That is close to 1 shotting mages.

thats literally a perfect scenario with top tier gear versus the squishiest class in the game. not a very solid arguement

With top gear judgement deals 50 damage, your mace closer to 74 with true damage and you can get similar armor rating to fighters with the templar armor and kettle...you may not want to as it makes kiting harder, but it's an option.

Additionally you have access to a 60hp shield with 93 base ho, putting you around fighter with a pot lvls of tank. Furthermore you got your spells for neutral.

Cleric is great, just bad when cought off guard which is fair drawback.

If you want to 1 shot 3 out of the 6 classes you can grab maul too if it's more to your liking.

[Blessed Heretic]

Inkersod の投稿を引用：

Yeah as cleric you CAN hit as hard as barb and kill people BUT only if you are buffed, you need to spend around 8 seconds(less with stats) of casting + drinking beer, and what if you don't have those 8 seconds and got caught with your pants down? you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ by classes that don't need none of this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...
While i'm winning with my Cleric 1v1 most of the fights while pre buffed and i have fun doing that, i find it so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying spending around 6 sec buffing just to be on par with barbs and fighters.
P.S. god i wish there were Paladins

Run cleric with divine smite and judgement. It's basically a paladin, loses all self healing but the damage output is really high if you build +magic +phys since all damage increases will be used by you.

Been running naked in goblin and just beating people to death with torches with smite, so the damage amp is insane.

[BigJ]

Adding to the chad above, divine strike applies to judgement. I love my spells too much for the build, but if you happen to have 2 clerics or go full inquisition with 3, having a hard hitter is great.