Damage inconsistencies

[Spad]

Why my fists do more damage(20) than my basic grey dagger(17)? Makes absolutely no sense. Also gear quality is way too big of a thing: a rogue with purple dagger(38 dmg) kills me in 2 hits from full health, if they have a purple armor they can literally pretend I don't exist because I would hit them for 2 hp per hit! The only way to kill a purple geared player with white gear is if their game crashes... and even then they might just reconnect before I can finish them off!

[Slinkyb]

Messaggio originale di Kha:

Messaggio originale di Slinkyb:

Higher attack speed? I mained a rogue and played a fighter. Rogue felt super weak compared to a fighter. I killed a few duos on my own and killed a few trios, but didnt get them all with my rogue. The attack speed doesn't feel much better than a fighter considering a regular dagger to the head only does 17 damage while a fighter sword does like 30 or so. Fighter can also sit behind his shield. I just don't feel like the dagger attacks that much faster and actually preferred playing on my fighter because of how easy it was to solo mobs and teams of pvpers.

Even with poison and rupture on I have almost killed someone after hitting them way more times than they hit me and I died and they still lived with a little bit of health left. I was pretty pissed on that one. If you want to say rogues should have the advantage because they can move faster and go invisible then yea those can account for some advantages and if used right can be a big decider.

However I am still with Spad on the rogues weak feeling since I have literally sat there stabbing a player over and over and over sooo much just to get a kill or to get killed, while my fighter takes very few shots to do so and can just shield block a 3 man party if done right.

The bigger issue is rogue is supposed to be a ambush fighter and its pretty damn hard to do that with the BR ring pushing you a lot when you need to be stealthy and wait. Time is the rogues friend in ambush attacks, but the game takes that away with the ring sometimes.

Nothing feels better though then going invisible and watching a duo walk by then crouch walking to backstab the guy whos behind his friend and watch them freak out as you do circles stabbing them in the face. This works sometimes. But geared people will not feel the pain as it were lol.

Ok nah, problem #1, the OP is complaining that daggers deal less damage than fists, when daggers have higher DPS than fists, that's the point i was making, you already done goofed by talking about something completely unrelated.

problem #2, a fighter is SUPPOSED to be stronger than a rogue in a face to face fight, you're not SUPPOSED to out dps a fighter when you're better at pretty much every other aspect in the game other than fighting. FIGHTERS FIGHT, whaddya ♥♥♥♥♥♥' know. But that's not even entirely true, rogues dominated the top of the leaderboard because not only can they do every non-fighting activity better than any other class, but they can also do PvP better than any other class! up to 75% damage boost PLUS the element of surprise? hell, ♥♥♥♥ that last bit, you don't even NEED to ambush someone to make use of your 75% damage buff, you just need to bum rush someone, active and break hide while circling behind a much, MUCH slower class than you while stabbing them in the back with a decent weapon and you're out DPSing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ barbarians. Poison? Bleed? who the hell cares about those weak ass DoTs when you can just get straight to the killing, no wonder it takes you forever to kill anyone when you're relying on what are very obviously the weakest traits of the rogue.

I'm not here to argue or fight people online. I'd rather come from a friendly point of view.

You stated that "The dagger still has much higher DPS due to having a much higher attack speed."

But then you stated "a fighter is SUPPOSED to be stronger than a rogue in a face to face fight, you're not SUPPOSED to out dps a fighter when you're better at pretty much every other aspect in the game other than fighting."

Those are contradicting statements right? I know. You went on to say how that's not even really true since rogues dominated the top leader boards. So why not try to explain that information about rogues being on top of the leaderboards and what exactly are the reasons they are on top before giving conflicting info and seeming to be more argumentative than helpful.

I am only even writing this because I like this game and would rather see helpful people in the community than toxic or argumentative people. If you have good knowledge someone else doesn't it doesn't hurt you to be helpful and explain that information in a neutral way.

[Will]

https://youtu.be/ZHKkDcj0f7E Here is a high level rogue annihilating lobbies. This game is very much not only skill dependent, but also EQ dependent for melee and interaction speed, and damage. Edit: i think dependence on eq is a good thing, because it makes you weigh up the efficacy of high level eq use vs potential for eq loss.

[Spad]

Messaggio originale di Will:

https://youtu.be/ZHKkDcj0f7E here is a high rogue annihilating lobbies. This game is very much not only skill dependent, but also EQ dependent for melee and interaction speed.

I watched that yesterday and the guy is using Unique dagger. My case in point : I think gear has a bit too much impact overall.

[Will]

Messaggio originale di Spad:

Messaggio originale di Will:

https://youtu.be/ZHKkDcj0f7E here is a high rogue annihilating lobbies. This game is very much not only skill dependent, but also EQ dependent for melee and interaction speed.

I watched that yesterday and the guy is using Unique dagger. My case in point : I think gear has a bit too much impact overall.

I don't think so, because it's balanced by the potential for eq loss. Edit; he also deserved that, got it from a lich drop.

[Kha]

Messaggio originale di Spad:

Messaggio originale di Kha:

Trust me, if you go into PvP as a rogue with a torch against a rogue with a starting dagger, you're going to lose that fight.

Ps. your bit about dealing 2 damage against a purple armored target is also completely wrong, that's not how armor works in this game. In fact, i've seen people complaining that armor isn't strong enough and simply isn't worth all the downsides, preferring to go without armor than with armor.

I have seen a fighter in my party getting attacked many times by a rogue, he literally lost less than 20 hp in 5-6 hits so no I don't trust you at all XD
Ps. you probably talking about the grey armors which as just as bad as the grey daggers

No, i am talking about purple armor. Also it's more likely that your fighter friend popped second wind. As from my own experience, i've killed mages and fighters alike in mere seconds of engaging them after an ambush.

[Slinkyb]

Messaggio originale di Will:

https://youtu.be/ZHKkDcj0f7E Here is a high level rogue annihilating lobbies. This game is very much not only skill dependent, but also EQ dependent for melee and interaction speed, and damage. Edit: i think dependence on eq is a good thing, because it makes you weigh up the efficacy of high level eq use vs potential for eq loss.

This really isn't a accurate representation of anything. You have a purple geared rogue fighting 90% starter gear players 1 blue geared player and a few semi blue geared people. Any class with all those purples would be able to do this. I am not convinced lol

[Will]

Messaggio originale di Slinkyb:

Messaggio originale di Will:

https://youtu.be/ZHKkDcj0f7E Here is a high level rogue annihilating lobbies. This game is very much not only skill dependent, but also EQ dependent for melee and interaction speed, and damage. Edit: i think dependence on eq is a good thing, because it makes you weigh up the efficacy of high level eq use vs potential for eq loss.

This really isn't a accurate representation of anything. You have a purple geared rogue fighting 90% starter gear players 1 blue geared player and a few semi blue geared people. Any class with all those purples would be able to do this. I am not convinced lol

It is, because the game is heavily eq dependent.

[Kha]

Messaggio originale di Slinkyb:

Messaggio originale di Kha:

Ok nah, problem #1, the OP is complaining that daggers deal less damage than fists, when daggers have higher DPS than fists, that's the point i was making, you already done goofed by talking about something completely unrelated.

problem #2, a fighter is SUPPOSED to be stronger than a rogue in a face to face fight, you're not SUPPOSED to out dps a fighter when you're better at pretty much every other aspect in the game other than fighting. FIGHTERS FIGHT, whaddya ♥♥♥♥♥♥' know. But that's not even entirely true, rogues dominated the top of the leaderboard because not only can they do every non-fighting activity better than any other class, but they can also do PvP better than any other class! up to 75% damage boost PLUS the element of surprise? hell, ♥♥♥♥ that last bit, you don't even NEED to ambush someone to make use of your 75% damage buff, you just need to bum rush someone, active and break hide while circling behind a much, MUCH slower class than you while stabbing them in the back with a decent weapon and you're out DPSing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ barbarians. Poison? Bleed? who the hell cares about those weak ass DoTs when you can just get straight to the killing, no wonder it takes you forever to kill anyone when you're relying on what are very obviously the weakest traits of the rogue.

I'm not here to argue or fight people online. I'd rather come from a friendly point of view.

You stated that "The dagger still has much higher DPS due to having a much higher attack speed."

But then you stated "a fighter is SUPPOSED to be stronger than a rogue in a face to face fight, you're not SUPPOSED to out dps a fighter when you're better at pretty much every other aspect in the game other than fighting."

Those are contradicting statements right? I know. You went on to say how that's not even really true since rogues dominated the top leader boards. So why not try to explain that information about rogues being on top of the leaderboards and what exactly are the reasons they are on top before giving conflicting info and seeming to be more argumentative than helpful.

I am only even writing this because I like this game and would rather see helpful people in the community than toxic or argumentative people. If you have good knowledge someone else doesn't it doesn't hurt you to be helpful and explain that information in a neutral way.

They're not contradicting statements, you'd know they're not contradicting statements if you were to actually pay attention to what is being talked about. So lemme spell it out for you once again since you apparently somehow missed it when i pointed it out for you.

I. Was. Refferring. To. The. Complaint. Of. The. Original. Post. Claiming. That. The. 17. Damage. Dagger. Is. Weaker. Than. Your. Fists. Even. Though. Your. Dagger. Has. A. Higher. Attack. Speed. Therefore. Giving. It. A. Higher. DPS.

Clear enough for you now? They're two different statements referring to two different things, they're not contradicting in the slightest.

As for telling me to say something in a neutral way. How is me pointing out the flaw in the OP's complaint and asking them what the issue is not neutral? How does that come off as hostile or "toxic"? If you're referring to my response to you, that was because you took what i said completely out of context, hilariously so, even. And twice to boot! I'd much rather someone be toxic while actually bothering to read and understand what i've written than try to be nice while repeatedly taking everything i say out of context.

[Kha]

Also yeah, high tier EQ makes a big difference, it does not however make you completely invincible. It does not make you take so little damage that you can DC in the middle of a fight, come back and still win. It does not make you take 2 damage per hit from a starting dagger. It can, and will win you fights, but you're going to lose all that godlike gear and cry about it if you get sloppy, and the level 6 scrub rogue with a white rapier is going to take it all off of you and sell it.

[Spad]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1602145849 Watch this video at 6h28m and see how much low damage the guy is taking from a rapier (he did pop a health pot but still gives an idea). 65% dmg reduction!

[Slinkyb]

Messaggio originale di Spad:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1602145849 Watch this video at 6h28m and see how much low damage the guy is taking from a rapier (he did pop a health pot but still gives an idea). 55% dmg reduction!

Yea gear disparity there says it all. That archer before that hit him pretty hard, but that probably means he had like a purple bow or something. I did post somewhere about the devs maybe doing matchmaking based on gear score or rarity. That would help a lot with stuff like this.

[Kha]

Messaggio originale di Spad:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1602145849 Watch this video at 6h28m and see how much low damage the guy is taking from a rapier (he did pop a health pot but still gives an idea). 55% dmg reduction!

So a rogue using one of the weakest weapons i've seen that isn't a crystal sword, actually weaker than the starting rogue dagger, with said rogue not utilizing ambush or backstab in any way and instead just rushing a fully geared fighter head first fails to deal any real damage to the fighter who is also under the effect of a high tier healing potion. Gear can make a big difference, but these conditions are hilariously one sided, how the hell does someone see a weapon that is actually weaker than their starting weapon and go "Yeah, yeah i like that, i think this'll improve my odds of winning"

Even if the fighter had nothing but starting gear, that Rogue would've been torn apart.

Gear that is lost upon death absolutely should have a noticeable effect, though i feel as though i must reiterate: Good gear does not make you invincible.

[Will]

Messaggio originale di Slinkyb:

Messaggio originale di Spad:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1602145849 Watch this video at 6h28m and see how much low damage the guy is taking from a rapier (he did pop a health pot but still gives an idea). 55% dmg reduction!

Yea gear disparity there says it all. That archer before that hit him pretty hard, but that probably means he had like a purple bow or something. I did post somewhere about the devs maybe doing matchmaking based on gear score or rarity. That would help a lot with stuff like this.

I prefer it as is tbh. Higher risk/reward.

[Slinkyb]

Messaggio originale di Will:

Messaggio originale di Slinkyb:

Yea gear disparity there says it all. That archer before that hit him pretty hard, but that probably means he had like a purple bow or something. I did post somewhere about the devs maybe doing matchmaking based on gear score or rarity. That would help a lot with stuff like this.

I prefer it as is tbh. Higher risk/reward.

You don't think you will get upset down the road when a lot more geared people show up and maybe you lost good gear and now the gear you have is meh and you just get stomped over and over because lots of purple people are showing up more and more?

I am not being sarcastic either, I honestly want to know if this would be okay to you?

Like what if you just go into a sequence of just dying over and over and now all you are running into is geared people and you only have starter gear and get killed easy and basically have no chance of winning fights anymore because of gear diff?

[Kha]

Messaggio originale di Slinkyb:

Messaggio originale di Will:

I prefer it as is tbh. Higher risk/reward.

You don't think you will get upset down the road when a lot more geared people show up and maybe you lost good gear and now the gear you have is meh and you just get stomped over and over because lots of purple people are showing up more and more?

I am not being sarcastic either, I honestly want to know if this would be okay to you?

Like what if you just go into a sequence of just dying over and over and now all you are running into is geared people and you only have starter gear and get killed easy and basically have no chance of winning fights anymore because of gear diff?

Ynow who'll be more upset? the full purple gear fighter who gets shanked by a rogue with a blue dagger after barely winning a 3v3.