To those that want the game to be more like Mordhau/Chivalry/Bannerlord

[ItsBooch]

Imagine you sit down with a paper and pencil, and say "I'm going to draw a nice picture of a dog to share with the world," and then, as you're drawing, a crowd forms, and most people say "wow, that's coming along nicely."

Then some other people come over and tell you "that's not how I would draw a dog; those ears aren't like these other artists' dogs ears, you should make it look more like theirs, because yours aren't good."

It's rude.

TLDR: if you don't like the core mechanics of a game, and you think the developers are wrong, don't play the game. There are enough games like Chivalry and Bannerlord for you to play. Don't sit here and tell the developers that their game ideas are wrong. It's not your game, it's theirs.

Plus, many of us REALLY LIKE the way the game plays, and would love for it to continue and evolve in the devs vision.

Good job IRONMACE, keep up the good work, I can't wait for the next playtest!

[Tsuru]

Its crazy how the internet as evolved to where everyone and their dog thinks they can sit in and say they are part of the development team.

[Wally]

bad dog

[BUNGO]

Gamers are entitled little shats - it's insane that developers still try to create indie titles

[Abomination713]

Mordhau and Chivalry are games based on abusing mechanics that devs never fix. They are not good games to copy.

[ItsBooch]

Originally posted by RO0ZiE:

Gamers are entitled little shats - it's insane that developers still try to create indie titles

I'm honestly shocked at how people don't understand how rude and selfish it is to lobby game developers into changing their vision of a game when there are a bunch of other people that actually like the game that they're making.

There are so many games out there that fulfill the requests of some of these people in the forums, and yet they still think it's ok to try to change the development of this game.

Again, vocal few, if you want Mordhau/Chiv combat, go play those games. If you want a PVE dungeon crawler, check out Barony or Gloomgrave, they look pretty good. Don't ruin this game for the people that actually like it the way it is. Please.

[SpiralRazor]

Imagine being offended by peoples opinions... Who hurt you?

[Hawthorn]

Originally posted by ItsBooch:

Imagine you sit down with a paper and pencil, and say "I'm going to draw a nice picture of a dog to share with the world," and then, as you're drawing, a crowd forms, and most people say "wow, that's coming along nicely."

Then some other people come over and tell you "that's not how I would draw a dog; those ears aren't like these other artists' dogs ears, you should make it look more like theirs, because yours aren't good."

It's rude.

TLDR: if you don't like the core mechanics of a game, and you think the developers are wrong, don't play the game. There are enough games like Chivalry and Bannerlord for you to play. Don't sit here and tell the developers that their game ideas are wrong. It's not your game, it's theirs.

Plus, many of us REALLY LIKE the way the game plays, and would love for it to continue and evolve in the devs vision.

Good job IRONMACE, keep up the good work, I can't wait for the next playtest!

Imagine if you invested a million dollars into the art supplies to draw a dog, with the expectation you could sell it for 2 million dollars.

Half way through you showed it to the public. Do you want only instagram simps to fawn over it and tell you how amazing you are? Or do you want real feedback you can review and make a decision on how to improve and get the most money back?

[BUNGO]

Originally posted by Hawthorn:

Originally posted by ItsBooch:

Imagine you sit down with a paper and pencil, and say "I'm going to draw a nice picture of a dog to share with the world," and then, as you're drawing, a crowd forms, and most people say "wow, that's coming along nicely."

Then some other people come over and tell you "that's not how I would draw a dog; those ears aren't like these other artists' dogs ears, you should make it look more like theirs, because yours aren't good."

It's rude.

TLDR: if you don't like the core mechanics of a game, and you think the developers are wrong, don't play the game. There are enough games like Chivalry and Bannerlord for you to play. Don't sit here and tell the developers that their game ideas are wrong. It's not your game, it's theirs.

Plus, many of us REALLY LIKE the way the game plays, and would love for it to continue and evolve in the devs vision.

Good job IRONMACE, keep up the good work, I can't wait for the next playtest!

Imagine if you invested a million dollars into the art supplies to draw a dog, with the expectation you could sell it for 2 million dollars.

Half way through you showed it to the public. Do you want only instagram simps to fawn over it and tell you how amazing you are? Or do you want real feedback you can review and make a decision on how to improve and get the most money back?

GIVE THE DOG A BEAK!!! MAKE IT HAVE ANIME EYES!!! MAKE IT WEAR A DRESS!!!

Are you going to take these suggestions as the artist? Are these suggestions likely to make more people buy? How do you know? Who do you listen to?

Or, you can be a good ass artist, not invest 2M, draw a damn good dog photo for people who like your style and not make a game for MAXIMUM MONEY

[ItsBooch]

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Imagine being offended by peoples opinions... Who hurt you?

lol. I'm not offended by people's opinions. I'm annoyed at people that demand that game developers change games that are barely along in the development process, because they'd rather it be like 10 other games that already exist.

I'm annoyed that those same people don't bother to take into consideration that there are many people already enjoying it the way it is, in part because it isn't exactly like all of those other games. And I think it's pretty rude, and selfish.

I'm annoyed that people think everything needs to make millions of dollars to be considered successful, in an age where we keep having sub par games released, riddled with bugs and in a completely unfinished and unpolished state, simply because corporate want to push everything out as soon as possible because they know it will still sell millions of copies.

I find it refreshing that IRONMACE seems to have a similar outlook on that last part, judging by their mission statement on their webpage, and I'm excited as hell to have a game that has some newer game designs, mixed with some ideas from games of the past, when games were almost all made as passion projects, and their quality showed it.

Maybe if the people making demands would actually word their opinions as opinions, or even as suggestions, and not as demands, I wouldn't have written this post.

[erandomone]

Originally posted by ItsBooch:

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Imagine being offended by peoples opinions... Who hurt you?

lol. I'm not offended by people's opinions. I'm annoyed at people that demand that game developers change games that are barely along in the development process, because they'd rather it be like 10 other games that already exist.

I'm annoyed that those same people don't bother to take into consideration that there are many people already enjoying it the way it is, in part because it isn't exactly like all of those other games. And I think it's pretty rude, and selfish.

I'm annoyed that people think everything needs to make millions of dollars to be considered successful, in an age where we keep having sub par games released, riddled with bugs and in a completely unfinished and unpolished state, simply because corporate want to push everything out as soon as possible because they know it will still sell millions of copies.

I find it refreshing that IRONMACE seems to have a similar outlook on that last part, judging by their mission statement on their webpage, and I'm excited as hell to have a game that has some newer game designs, mixed with some ideas from games of the past, when games were almost all made as passion projects, and their quality showed it.

Maybe if the people making demands would actually word their opinions as opinions, or even as suggestions, and not as demands, I wouldn't have written this post.

Most of these threads of "change it in x way" came up well after the playtest was over. So I have to believe the forums are just cluttered with trolls that saw it played on twitch, and are saying the same thing over and over to just get attention.

[ItsBooch]

Originally posted by erandomone:

Most of these threads of "change it in x way" came up well after the playtest was over. So I have to believe the forums are just cluttered with trolls that saw it played on twitch, and are saying the same thing over and over to just get attention.

Yeah, after posting the responses that I have, and noticing that people have just started to skip past my posts and continue arguing over the same things, I've pretty much come to that conclusion as well.

I will honestly never understand why there are some people that get entertainment out of ruining things for people, and making others upset. I wish there was some way to help them, but it probably stems from some deep psychological issues regarding their parents, and a lack of love growing up. It's really sad, honestly.

[BlazedBob]

I agree the game is PERFECT as is.

DONT CHANGE ANYTHING.

[Reapeth]

I think that's a bit unfair. It's clear the game is in its early stages so there are gonna be more changes to come. Constructive criticism is important to helping anything in its early stages grow. If I wanted to become a better artist and drew a bad drawing of a dog, I don't want people to tell me it's perfect. That doesn't help me grow. That's just a bunch of yes men. Of course, not every single feedback is useful, but who the hell are you to decide whether it's useful or not? That's the dev's choice. You're not some sort of champion appointed by the devs so stop acting like it.

Now, I'm not saying Dark and Darker is the bad dog. I think it's great and already love the game as it is. But constructive criticism is NOT the same as insulting someone. I don't think the devs are doing anything wrong. I'm sure most people understand the game is in its early stages and many of them see it as a game they'll enjoy a lot of in the future. Of course they're going to want to give some feedback. That's the entire POINT of a playtest! And I'm sure the devs understand that a lot more than all the folks who take constructive criticism as rude.

Now, if people really are insulting the devs, yeah they are rude and need to gtfo. But if they're just saying, "oh, I like the game but I think some chiv style combat would be cool"? That's just them being honest, not rude. They want the game to become a game they would want to play more of and the devs want to make a game that more people in that target audience would wanna play.

Not only that but saying other people wanting the game to change is rude and selfish can kinda be said the same way to the people who want it to be the same. Both groups of people want the game to be the way they want it. Let everyone have their own voice. Take a look at your own opinions before you judge others. Everyone's just saying their piece so that the game becomes more attractive for their wallet and I'm sure the devs wanna hear that information.

Edit: Didn't realize how old this thread was. MB

[YomaBlood]

imagine making a product that youre trying to sale to possible buyers and ignore their opinions to shape that product. im glad booch is not in charge or affiliated with the team in anyway. go back to your woke basement if you find others opinions "rude"

[ItsBooch]

Yeah, you guys clearly didn't read the rest of my posts in this thread. I'm not against constructive criticism, I'm against people demanding that the game be a different game, because they like that other game better. Lobbying game developers to drastically change the core mechanics of the game that they're making because you don't like it how it is is selfish, and disrespectful to both the developers and the people that are enjoying the game the way it is.

I'll even give you an example: telling the developers that certain weapons are overpowered, or saying that it might be cool if there was a way to get different weapon combos through leveling up the weapon (a suggestion I saw in another thread) are opinions that might be taken as constructive criticism. Telling the developers that the combat needs to be exactly like the combat in Mordhau or Chivalry, or you're not gonna buy it is not constructive. It's like saying "I like your game, but these other games are better; make your game like these games." That's rude, and selfish.

There are multiple games with directional combat that already exist, just like there are multiple PVE dungeon crawlers, at least one of which has co-op. This game is great because it isn't the same as other games. It's unique and is headed in a great direction, without being those other games.

But you're right, this is an old thread. Ima go back to my woke basement now.