Ryza 3 is proof that bigger maps =/= better experience

[kandnm115709]

My first 2 hours of the game is literally re-exploring the map from the 1st game, which doesn't even reward me for doing it. Materials are all over the place and most of them you can find pretty much everywhere else, making checking each gathering point super tedious, even after upgrading gathering level to 3. Treasures are also super disappointing. It also doesn't help that enemies are scattered way too close to gathering points, making it very annoying when all I want to do is gather stuff but I keep accidentally starting combat, which imo is a massive FU for players who preferred Ryza 2's. Then the map got even bigger.

I'm sorta enjoying the game after 10 hours but now I'm starting to feel burnt out because much like Ryza 2, I feel like this game is yet another re-thread of the 1st game. Seriously, this is yet another coming of age story, when all of the teenage characters are basically adults now. I also hate that Serri, my fave character from Ryza 2, got the boot but not Patti.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by kandnm115709:

Ryza 3 is proof that bigger maps =/= better experience

I mean, I have already been saying that since Ryza 1 and again with Ryza 2 and Sophie 2.
With harvesting & nodes being as they are, I dont think having even half this much space is a good thing.

Without materials having actual natural distribution and the map shaped with that in mind (not bodies of water on every map, not rocks on every map, etc) there is just no point in adding all that much wasted space. Also, nodes dont look unique enough. Thinking about it now I dont know how that is still a thing.

Imo in the next game they should massively reduce the amount of materials, landsize and number of nodes and focus on quality over quantity. Make materials valuable again. Lower tier materials a bit more common, higher ones rarer and maybe have special requirements to discover them, etc. Not being spammed with nodes, a lot of land, too many materials to count. Oh some new type of lumber? Oh cool, throw it into the container with the other 25.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by kandnm115709:

My first 2 hours of the game is literally re-exploring the map from the 1st game, which doesn't even reward me for doing it. Materials are all over the place and most of them you can find pretty much everywhere else, making checking each gathering point super tedious, even after upgrading gathering level to 3. Treasures are also super disappointing. It also doesn't help that enemies are scattered way too close to gathering points, making it very annoying when all I want to do is gather stuff but I keep accidentally starting combat, which imo is a massive FU for players who preferred Ryza 2's. Then the map got even bigger.

I'm sorta enjoying the game after 10 hours but now I'm starting to feel burnt out because much like Ryza 2, I feel like this game is yet another re-thread of the 1st game. Seriously, this is yet another coming of age story, when all of the teenage characters are basically adults now. I also hate that Serri, my fave character from Ryza 2, got the boot but not Patti.

Previous Atelier series didnt have that problem since they all had different main characters with different background and the type of gameplay also being a bit different.

For example in Arland first game had an alchemy in service of the king being tasked with performing tasks to proof their service. Second game the alchemist was an adventurer looking for her adventurer mom who had gone missing. Third game was a princess doing kingdom management.

In Dusk first game alchemist was looking for her sister that went missing (sounds similar to Arland 2, but the story is actually quite a bit different), second game a city alchemist and small town alchemist team up to find a way to enter flying ruins. Third game the daughter of a village chief looks for a solution to prevent her village from being abandoned due to the well drying up.

All 6 of those games have fairly different types of stories. Not one of them is really similar They still share characters across each trilogy. Many of the cast in Arland comes back in game 2 and 3. But even so they feel like different games. Actual sequels since the MC from game 1 is the teacher of game 2 MC, and she in turn teaches MC of game 3.

Mysterious had that as well to a degree, but those games arent written as well or as interesting tbh.

Personally I miss the times when they made Atelier games like Arland or Dusk.

[kandnm115709]

Just spent another couple of hours playing after posting this and unfortunately, my experience playing this game plateaued. The joy of crafting is no longer there because much like in Ryza 2, you're basically doing Ryza 1 all over again, even with the key gimmick. Shame, I placed far too high of an expectation for this game.

[Washing Machine]

Each their own, I've been having a blast with the giant map exploration. Elden Ryza good times.

[The Dead Weight]

I'm personally enjoying the bigger maps and more open world structure. That was the obvious next step in evolution to take. The problem really is that Gust is not cut out for creating an open world like this. An open world like this needs a way bigger budget and more time to be worth it because right now it's very empty. Also, I think it's quite ridiculous that it's the 3rd game and they've expanded upon everything except the same enemy variety that were in Ryza 1.

[kandnm115709]

Exploring the huge map isn't rewarding. Treasure chests gives subpar materials or items, making actually hunting them feels like a waste of time. NPCs have nothing worthwhile to say that could expand the lore of the game. Worst of all, after two games, GUST still can't be bothered to create more enemy varieties. The map itself is as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle. There's really no point in revisiting most areas I've uncovered unless the story demands me to because most materials can pretty much be found literally anywhere, except for a select few. Open world syndrome at it's finest.

[Nepnep]

Yes. Open world doesn't make it a better game. Too much space to explore with little. But head pets do make it a better game. Because cute is justice.

(Just me lamenting the lack of head pets.)

[Shylaar]

I don't think the maps being big is the problem. They're fun to explore and there's an impressive level of variety in the environments throughout. But there is a huge problem in the distribution of materials and enemies. A huge number of those are shared among all the maps in the game, so areas don't feel unique. As far as materials go I think a part of that problem is Ryza's gathering tool system with the multiple items to gather from each point as you upgrade your tool, so there's massive redundancy in materials. And it also has the consequence of making materials hard to actually find at the same time, because you're trying to find a specific bundle of hay in a haystack. You check the guide for a monster or item and it'll show you 20 different areas they can be found, but then you go to those areas and you'll struggle to actually find them because of the deluge of materials and enemies in the area.
It would've worked much better if they specialised the design more; restrict certain materials to certain areas instead of having them be all over the place, and restrict certain enemy types to certain locations as well. It'd give things much more identity, and make it easier to find things at the same time. And hell, ingredients like Lamp Grass from the previous games are still present across Kurken Island but you can't actually gather them in 3, for some reason.

It also doesn't help that the world seems entirely devoid of bonus bosses. It sucks the fun out of exploring all these cool locations when there's nothing at the end of them. Hell, they didn't even bring back the palette swap bonus bosses from Ryza 1, so if you go to the areas where they were, there's just nothing there. Why? It's so lame.

[Melodia]

What's crazy about the gathering is that in Ryza 1 it was great -- most areas had little...let's call them pockets.....where you could get a whole bunch of unique materials and in general each area had a somewhat unique selection of them. But then Ryza 2 came along - and then Sophie 2 copied this and it's just.....I don't need 300 Crimson Ores, why would I bother to keep getting them?

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by kandnm115709:

Just spent another couple of hours playing after posting this and unfortunately, my experience playing this game plateaued. The joy of crafting is no longer there because much like in Ryza 2, you're basically doing Ryza 1 all over again, even with the key gimmick. Shame, I placed far too high of an expectation for this game.

If your only Atelier experience is Ryza 1 & 2, I can recommend the other games. They are different (and imo better) experiences.

[smeredith]

Adding on to Shylaar's very accurate comments; the distribution of items is roughly associated with "regions" around a landmark, but you can't tell the boundaries of what counts. This makes it even harder to find rare items.

The open world scaling of foes is a pain, they never run away unless your on a spirit beast (which you can't be when using a tool). The item preview only shows for your active tool, requiring you go to into the wheel and select each tool to see (and that takes time while foes are charging at you).

The open world spamming lots of chests, but unlike even Sophie 2, it's mostly 1 common item in the chest! Earlier games usually provided recipes, pre-crafted intermediary items, rare items (like Ryza 2 items that could otherwise only be obtained with gold coins), or items that you don't have access to yet. Most of the Ryza 3 chests just give you an item you can pick up dozens of in the surrounding area!

I did enjoy my time with Ryza 3 but the open world design was definitely a detriment to the experience in my opinion. I even loved Ryza 2, and this just doesn't feel as good. To say nothing about how good earlier games (like Dusk) were compared to this.

[Electroshock]

Originally posted by smeredith:

The open world scaling of foes is a pain, they never run away unless your on a spirit beast (which you can't be when using a tool).

When you're overwhelmingly strong then they'll start to run away from you on foot

[Efesell]

Originally posted by Shylaar:

It would've worked much better if they specialised the design more; restrict certain materials to certain areas instead of having them be all over the place, and restrict certain enemy types to certain locations as well. It'd give things much more identity, and make it easier to find things at the same time.

Yeah absolutely feeling this as well.

For as much as I kind of like how Ryza is hoovering through the forest absorbing every bit and bob she comes across.. it does just start to feel a little rote very quickly. I found myself missing going to specific areas and just having a small handful of spots that have bespoke materials in them.

I do hope the series keeps just how fast she can gather though.

[Washing Machine]

Originally posted by smeredith:

The open world scaling of foes is a pain, they never run away unless your on a spirit beast (which you can't be when using a tool). The item preview only shows for your active tool, requiring you go to into the wheel and select each tool to see (and that takes time while foes are charging at you).

There is certain comedy though to a brief character banter cutscene in the middle of the woods, then the moment it ends the characters that were just talking there transform into a trio of velicoraptors that immediately zip at you to pick a fight.

[kandnm115709]

Oh yeah, the banter. It was cute hearing it the first time while "exploring" the map but Jesus Christ almighty, they won't stop repeating the same thing over and over again. I'm so sick of hearing how Klaudia met someone who knew her or Lent talking about discovering the new islands.