Arnim Zola - Wong Interaction

[swordless]

So not sure if this is a bug or working as intended but just played a game where someone had played Wong, then Black Panther and then Arnim Zola to finish.

Arnim Zola hit Wong destroying it but then Arnim Zola still triggered a second time copying Black Panther as well. As Wong is an ongoing ability shouldn't the fact he was destroyed and no longer at Arnim Zolas location mean the second ability wouldn't trigger?

I have had occasions where playing Jubilee at the on reveal abilities happen twice location when it played Storm as the first card removing the location ability and stopping the second trigger so would have thought removing Wong should have the same outcome here.

[chaosek]

The double reveal triggers on the reveal of Zola, so before Wong is destroyed. It's the same as with Iron Fist and Forge. Their reveal effect will still trigger even if they get destroyed.

[Cheddar Goblin]

I think location abilities always go last, so in your Jubilee into Storm example, Storm wipes out the location ability so Jubilee doesn't trigger again.

[Bou]

When the opponent plays Arnim Zola, he activates twice right away thanks to Wong. The fact that the animation is separated in two steps doesn't mean anything, when Arnim revealed himself there was a "double on-reveal effects" active, so that still applies.

In your Storm example it's not the same. Storm plays first while the other Jubilee is face down (not yet revealed). Storm eliminates the location effect and then Jubilee ability only happens once, since the effect is no longer present.

[araisikewai]

Kamar-Taj is probably the only location that overrides On Reveal ability by triggering first before On Reveal ability, forcing it to trigger twice.
But because you played Storm, she just flood the place twice and you wouldn't see any difference. Same result if you played Rhino.

If you played Scarlet Witch or Quake on the other hand, you will see it much clearer that it does force the card to trigger twice.

Afterwards, the next On Reveal cards flips and triggers only once because the place has been changed to Flooding.

The same thing with Arnim Zola-Wong. Wong force AZ to trigger twice. Even after Wong gets destroyed. Any card that gets played after AZ (if there's any) wouldn't get Wong double trigger then.

[lordatog]

This *is* odd when you compare it to the Jubliee-into-Storm example. If Arnim Zola triggering twice when played with Wong is locked in in that instant, and still happens twice even if Wong vanishes before the second one starts, then Jubliee played on Kamar-Taj should also be locked into triggering twice, and the second one should still happen even if the location changes before the second one starts.

So I guess the question is - are we 100% certain that if you play Jubliee on Kamar-taj and hit Scarlet Witch, Storm, or Rhino on the first pull, then the second pull doesn't happen? I know the OP claims this is the case, but can anyone confirm?

[Adam]

I don't think it's a bug, but sometimes it feels like there were too many different programmers working on the game. There's a lot of similar mechanics that don't follow a strict and obvious rule-set. Some of the descriptions of locations and cards could be updated as well. And I disagree with the keyboard warriors that get on here and say "You should know every behind the scenes interaction and not be lazy." because it only hurts the casual playerbase in the long run if there's too many confusing and obscure aspect about the rules of the game.

[Zlehtnoba]

Originally posted by Adam:

I don't think it's a bug, but sometimes it feels like there were too many different programmers working on the game. There's a lot of similar mechanics that don't follow a strict and obvious rule-set. Some of the descriptions of locations and cards could be updated as well. And I disagree with the keyboard warriors that get on here and say "You should know every behind the scenes interaction and not be lazy." because it only hurts the casual playerbase in the long run if there's too many confusing and obscure aspect about the rules of the game.

I miss a comprehensive rules document. So, for example, they would tell us what swap means in Snap, or what happens in the case above. I know players post what seems like correct answers here, but it would be nice to have all the answers in a single place.

[Aigle1705]

this requieres an assey for literly every single card.
aspec when it comes to the term "play" since play works differnt with every card. xD

example:

sandman in game, both players can only play 1 card.

but:
Jubilee still PLAYs a card from deck
Hela still PLAYs discarded cards
Wolverine is still rePLAYed by the player when destroyed

but again:
guess what? non of the above triggers bishop.
who gets +1 when ever sth is played on your side.

wording wise this game is the worse i ever came across :D

i mean you could argue that jubilee n hela aint the player, but that opens another path of non sense with other interactions. and it starts with wolverine who IS replayed by YOU.

[swordless]

Originally posted by Zlehtnoba:

Originally posted by Adam:

I don't think it's a bug, but sometimes it feels like there were too many different programmers working on the game. There's a lot of similar mechanics that don't follow a strict and obvious rule-set. Some of the descriptions of locations and cards could be updated as well. And I disagree with the keyboard warriors that get on here and say "You should know every behind the scenes interaction and not be lazy." because it only hurts the casual playerbase in the long run if there's too many confusing and obscure aspect about the rules of the game.

I miss a comprehensive rules document. So, for example, they would tell us what swap means in Snap, or what happens in the case above. I know players post what seems like correct answers here, but it would be nice to have all the answers in a single place.

It doesn't even need to be that comprehensive just a summary of what some of the terms mean and a list of the order things resolve in would be helpful.

It does seem that the location effects trigger last and that does also explain a few other odd interactions that don't go as I would have expected from the way its worded. For example a similar issue is playing cards on the location that adds a copy of the card to your hand or your opponents hand. Originally I assumed a card is 'played' to a location as soon as it is face down at that location. Then after it is 'Played' it is 'Revealed' so if the on reveal action destroys or affects the location it was still played at the original one so a copy should be made. But the game counts the playing of the actual card and the reveal action all as being 'Played' so again playing something like Storm there removes the location ability before the card counts as being played so there is no copy made.

[²×ÐøµßLe§†ÆkKeÐײ]

try using Zola on Lockjaw, while playing cards at other locations if ya wanna see bugs lol

[Zlehtnoba]

Originally posted by Aigle1705:

this requieres an assey for literly every single card.
aspec when it comes to the term "play" since play works differnt with every card. xD

example:

sandman in game, both players can only play 1 card.

but:
Jubilee still PLAYs a card from deck
Hela still PLAYs discarded cards
Wolverine is still rePLAYed by the player when destroyed

but again:
guess what? non of the above triggers bishop.
who gets +1 when ever sth is played on your side.

wording wise this game is the worse i ever came across :D

i mean you could argue that jubilee n hela aint the player, but that opens another path of non sense with other interactions. and it starts with wolverine who IS replayed by YOU.

Exactly. And if somebody at Second Dinner took the trouble to write it all down, they would then probably also change the wording on cards, or change the way cards work, to make it more consistent.