Hela decks are an example of terrible design

[Si]

Every time I play against these decks its the same thing - "Let me play Hela or I'm leaving".

That's it. There is no inbetween. They either play Hela and slam down 30+ power in one turn, or they accidentally discard their Hela and retreat faster than you can blink.

Its very boring to play against. Essentially they win or disappear the moment they have that one bad discard.

The IW/Modok/Hela decks were the same. You place Cosmo in front of IW and they've retreated before the cards even finish resolving.

At least with other decks, people can carry on playing after a setback, and you can make it to turn 6 and earn some cubes, but with Hela decks it's all or nothing.

[Commander Tom]

Hela should be buffed so that she can't be discarded. It's no different then knull (knull has even more power),

[Koori_89]

Hela is the win condition in most cases, unless you run some custom Hela deck that doesn't cheese and has manageable cards and the opponent draws like a granny, you would stay. But nobody will sit there and just take a L. A lot of decks can also instantly leave when they don't draw or when they lose their win condition card. Like losing both shaw and surfer , or losing cerebro and blue marvel in Cerebro decks. It saves everyone time. Now its annoying to slog along with 1 cube wins but it is what it is , it wasn't any diff for lockdown with proff x and alioth , ppl just leave.

[Si]

Originally posted by Koori_89:

Hela is the win condition in most cases, unless you run some custom Hela deck that doesn't cheese and has manageable cards and the opponent draws like a granny, you would stay. But nobody will sit there and just take a L. A lot of decks can also instantly leave when they don't draw or when they lose their win condition card. Like losing both shaw and surfer , or losing cerebro and blue marvel in Cerebro decks. It saves everyone time. Now its annoying to slog along with 1 cube wins but it is what it is , it wasn't any diff for lockdown with proff x and alioth , ppl just leave.

Yes those may leave if a location discards Surfer or plays it early but that's rare....and even then theres still more chance of them exploring other play lines.

Hela is completely binary in comparison. Obviously as a discard deck its a much higher chance.

Regardless of the reason the end result is still the same - they play Hela and win or they discard Hela and instantly disappear. It's very boring.

Prof X was similar yes. Either theybwin the lane or they retreat before the animations have even finished.

It's so lame. When its a rare deck its whatever but with Hela in the meta its really bad. Its unfulfilling.

[Dodon]

Single Wincon Decks, man.

It's why I hate this meta of "extending the match to Turn 7 and digging for the deck's one wincon using stuff like Lockjaw and Iron Lad and cost reduction," these decks that just want to slam down a bunch of 6-costs and don't have any tech in them except "the tech that gets me my serotonin play" are getting real stale.

[Bapellan]

They better nerf Hela the same way they nerfed Galactus

[kingts]

I think you are all over thinking this.
Discard archetype is one of 14 archetypes in the game and Si, knows this, that they feature one a month to try and make sales, not balance anything.
I have no issue with Hela the card its self, it simply a cascading effect of what you add that players take advantage of.
If its not Hela, its Shang Chi, not Shang Chi, its Ms Marvel, not Ms Marvel, its Thanos.

Discard got some help in giving players more choices to utilize cards that are part of that archetype.
Modok, Morbius, Ghost Rider, Blade, and additions have allowed more choices, but Hela is simply a recall mechanic that players found ways due to their new additions to minimize the RNG effect to get more specific in a 6-7 turn game to make the most of her trigger.
In the past the RNG would hit her to ruin her ability. Si remembers this that Hela was being discarded out of hand in a problematic way.

What changes did we see.
Black Cat, Hellcow, Sword-master, Modok, Apocalypse, additions of Glaive, Midnight, MieK (who really is Miek), buffs to Blade to control that discard, so discard got power increases to certain cards that allowed Hela more power call back, and additions to power that allowed her to run nuts.
from a power standpoint, nothing had changed, still the Infinauts, Magnetos, She Hulks, Red Skulls, Deaths in the game, but add Skaar, Blob, Cull, and others, well now her pool of what she can call back got more precise.

What cards were benefiting most from this recall effect, say getting around her ability. Well, people simply were overusing Lockjaw, Jubilees, Black Knight, to get instant power options, so they changed one, Lockjaw.

Hidden has also complicated her usage. The issue is not just Hela as she has a one time effect. Its the ability of the decks to drop power down each turn without her. In-case she fails. If you don't draw Hela, or she is discarded unable to return. The decks were still out-powering you in two lanes. Fine I don't have Hela, take a Black Cat 9 pwr on 4, how about boom, Red Skull in the open lane, and finish you off with Giganto Left, I don't need Hela, see...pwr.

Hela is not the problem, but as they add more power, and more choices around Hela, I agree with Si, she will get out of hand.
The archetypes will continue to change in power and balance and the discard theme will be featured again with new cards later this year.

Players will adjust.

[Lady MacBeth]

I mean they out right said in this weeks ota that they aren't interested in "balance" they made changes this week just to make changes. That is not necessarily a bad thing, if it actually changes things. Because what its been roughly the same decks at the top for months now. We will see if anything actually changes though cause thanos lockjaw is way ahead on untapped in the infinite conquest since the ota from what I saw when hoogland had the stats pulled up this morning.

[Wipkonijntje]

DK is a bigger problem then hela.

gaining a 4/20 uncounterable blade AND still be able to get that 20 power body back with hela is just to much.

[groovador]

Originally posted by Wipkonijntje:

DK is a bigger problem then hela.

what has donkey kong ever done to you

[Zlehtnoba]

We have at least two all-in decks at top level, Hela and Mister Negative. You could put Surfer in the same bag, but he's rarely played right now. But take heart Si, it will take a few days but then everybody will be playing Thanos Lockjaw again, that actually got better after lockjaw 'nerf'.

[ryu600RR]

hela needs some adjustment, if she's gonna resurrect all cards at least make it 6/0

or have her resurrect any number of specific cost cards at specific lanes in relation to location where hela is played

plenty of ways to 'balance' that bs

[Piuca]

the game is broken, I see this in many games, are the devs not seeing this? btw... being stuck at 80 and since it is impossible to go up, I started to lose on purpose and I think I know how to detect bots, the bots always play left, little in the middle and the right they don't play, it seems like something from a crazy person who believes in conspiracies, but it was like 8 out of 10 plays...ridiculous, I could put 2 cards cost 1 in the middle and right on turn 6 and win. If you have nothing to lose, try it patiently

[Tray]

Originally posted by Piuca:

the game is broken, I see this in many games, are the devs not seeing this? btw... being stuck at 80 and since it is impossible to go up, I started to lose on purpose and I think I know how to detect bots, the bots always play left, little in the middle and the right they don't play, it seems like something from a crazy person who believes in conspiracies, but it was like 8 out of 10 plays...ridiculous, I could put 2 cards cost 1 in the middle and right on turn 6 and win. If you have nothing to lose, try it patiently

Bots are well known and very common on the ladder pre-infinite, there is nothing crazy or conspiracy theory about them.

[Koori_89]

I will echo what Knight said, its not all on Hela. She hasn't changed a single bit since she exists, what changed were the cards around her. There are so many tall guy cards its absurd, like why is hell cow a 4/8 that was far more of a buff than anything else.
Also the majority of complaints are for lockjaw jubilee cookie cutter decks, that aren't as good as they seem, for every win with lockjaw he trolls you 3 games in a roll, same with jubilee. The IW modok combo is just a joke, you slap a cosmo last turn and they shrivel. And the Hela Tribunal is just one of those disgusting feel bad decks like proff X Alioth , but there the problem is not Hela, its the Tribunal with iron man and onslaught, that one needs a nerf.

I am a Hela main player, I have tried all the bs combos, the best Hela deck is the targeted discard one it is consistent and allows for option to play even if you discard Hela, because you put out power every turn instead of hot tub meta soaking with IW waiting for turn 5.

ALSO don't even look at the BS win rate metrics , that don't show even half of the truth. Hela''s win rate is inflated by the fact that you either play her or you leave the game , the cases where you carry on are very minimal even I don't feel like I should carry on, because in most cases when they see a hela Discard they snap and I am faced with the question, can I beat them with what's on the board and whats left in my deck. IF no I am 100% not going to donate cubes to player X. SImple as that.

Again, yes ppl instantly leave when they discard Hela, because the opponent instantly snaps. Doing it faster then them snapping or not is not the full picture. Nobody will sit there are donate 4 cubes.

[Lady MacBeth]

Originally posted by Koori_89:

its the Tribunal with iron man and onslaught, that one needs a nerf.

No it doesn't. Its a terrible deck any time enchantress is being actively played. Just right now the only deck playing enchantress for the most part is sera control, and its horrible into the hela matchup so has been pushed out of the meta alot.