Going against the majority on the opinion of uptie tier 4 cost

[DragonCorpVI]

From comparing the displayed images of tier 4 salt and the current tier 3 salt, it's looks likes an overall big change and this is considering how strong some of 3 star and even 2 star ID's can be and this goes for ego's as well

I really honestly don't think the cost for uptying to tier 4 is that big of a problem and it's completely fine.

It's clear that PM has been hinting and now showing that tier 4 upgrades are gonna noticeably make ID's a whole lot stronger and now they're also showing that they aren't gonna be easily acquired and you'll have to pick and choose who you will grind for to uptie to tier 4, be it your most used ID, favorite ID or strongest ID that you like to use a lot.

To be honest, I thought PM was gonna make the tier 4 requirements be something like "100 shards + 50 threads (and then X threads higher for 3 star ID's)" for like the majority of the ID and ego upgrades, which only then I would have somewhat of a problem with it, but the way they priced them is fine, we shouldn't be able to uptie the majority or all the ID's instantly to tier 4 in just a few days.

To be honest, I feel like the pricing is only an issue to people who wanted to uptie all ID's or their favorite/best ID's all at once quickly to tier 4 on the day of release or within a couple days of the release of tier 4, when it's been sorta obvious since the day PM first talked about uptie tier 4 that tier 4 are gonna make ID's stronger and won't be easily attained.

And I know some people have already been saying "but new players this and that" but new players won't have to worry about tier 4 till after chapter 4 and once they do, yes they'll most likely struggle more than the rest of us grinding to tier 4 for a certain ID and more likely stress themselves out because they want to have most or all of their ID's at tier 4, but they'll have to realize like the rest of us that tier 4 isnt suppose to be easily obtained and you'll have to pick and choose which ID you want to grind for up to tier 4.


The only problem I agree with is base LCB sinner's and ego's not automatically being uptied to tier 4, that's the only decision I don't agree with at all, they should be automatically uptied to tier 4 after chapter 4.

All in all, tier 4 looks a like a big upgrade and not something that is easily obtained which im pretty sure PM designed it like that.

Im already planning to get W don to tier 4 first, then N sinclair and then plan for the rest one by one or by two.

Note to some people:
Along with saying the pricing is an issue to those who thought they would be able to "wanted to uptie all ID's or their favorite/best ID's all at once quickly to tier 4 on the day of release or within a couple days of the release of tier 4", the cost isn't the issue as well because PM just doesn't have more ways for its players to earn resources to upgrade ID's and the solution is not as simple as increasing the amount of rewards earned.

[Dominic]

Originally posted by DragonCorpVI:

From comparing the displayed images of tier 4 salt and the current tier 3 salt, it's looks likes an overall big change and this is considering how strong some of 3 star and even 2 star ID's can be and this goes for ego's as well

I really honestly don't think the cost for uptying to tier 4 is that big of a problem and it's completely fine.

It's clear that PM has been hinting and now showing that tier 4 upgrades are gonna noticeably make ID's a whole lot stronger and now they're also showing that they aren't gonna be easily acquired and you'll have to pick and choose who you will grind for to uptie to tier 4, be it your most used ID, favorite ID or strongest ID that you like to use a lot.

its a massive power bump thats gonna have a big cost to go with it, it makes sense to me though i do wish the thread was a bit cheaper

Originally posted by DragonCorpVI:

To be honest, I feel like the pricing is only an issue to people who wanted to uptie all ID's or their favorite/best ID's all at once quickly to tier 4 on the day of release or within a couple days of the release of tier 4, when it's been sorta obvious since the day PM first talked about uptie tier 4 that tier 4 are gonna make ID's stronger and won't be easily attained.

exactly people expect to have all the current lategame instantly even though thats not how games should work

Originally posted by DragonCorpVI:

And I know some people have already been saying "but new players this and that" but new players won't have to worry about tier 4 till after chapter 4 and once they do, yes they'll most likely struggle more than the rest of us grinding to tier 4 for a certain ID and more likely stress themselves out because they want to have most or all of their ID's at tier 4, but they'll have to realize like the rest of us that tier 4 isnt suppose to be easily obtained and you'll have to pick and choose which ID you want to grind for up to tier 4.

said this in more detail in the other thread. new players shouldnt expect to reach endgame state characters right away so its a bad argument to say its "bad for new players"

Originally posted by DragonCorpVI:

The only problem I agree with is base LCB sinner's and ego's not automatically being uptied to tier 4, that's the only decision I don't agree with at all, they should be automatically uptied to tier 4 after chapter 4.

again yeah baseline id/ego should continue to be upgraded for free but hey atleast they are really cheap

Originally posted by DragonCorpVI:

All in all, tier 4 looks a like a big upgrade and not something that is easily obtained which im pretty sure PM designed it like that.

Im already planning to get W don to tier 4 first, then N sinclair and then plan for the rest one by one or by two.

im looking forward to uptying budget xiao ish and reindeer ish myself. i got over 2k thread banked and 1k selector crates so i can uptie everyone i normally use but im most excited for those 2 cuz im an ish enjoyer. also looking forward to the new don id, i think dandy don looks neat

[solaariel]

As I said on another thread I have two problems with the current pricing.

The first is that f2p players get a third of the rewards from BP, which currently is by far the best way to get thread. This could be easily fixed by adding new luxcavation stages.

My second is with the distribution of the costs. EGO is overpriced for what is already more less important than IDs (a Zayin costs as much as a 000 ID).

I'm mostly fine with the current cost of IDs, and I completely agree with you that Base ID's and EGO should be free.

[Mastema]

The ID costs are meh, people will manage, but the EGO with TETH and HE pricings are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nuts. Literally people will only stat up Sunshower and Fluid Sac then forget the rest, because they will need to save up for something else. Also the fact they keep making new ID and EGO every single WEEK or so. Don't you think the longer this will go the more they'll start to raise the bar for this? I mean whales or people that play this 24/7 don't gotta worry about it in the slightest, but when more tiers/upgrades come in more forms which are different than uptie or leveling then it'll become messy.

[Sergalius]

More white knights of PM cult. PM really is a reverse mihoyo. Goodluck when this game would went lost ark route. fools

[A Wispy Willy]

Originally posted by Sergalius:

More white knights of PM cult. PM really is a reverse mihoyo. Goodluck when this game would went lost ark route. fools

Reverse Mihoyo is a good thing to me no matter who they are.

[DoT]

Remove ego shards as a resource required to uptie identities and ego, and im happy.

[Craossa Senpai]

ID's are mostly alright since 50 shards aren't too big of an issue depending on how many ID's you want to use for the sinner, but the E.G.O. Costs for Shards are way too high to reasonably grind for while saving for Hard-Sparking ID's, since you're going to be using Base + one other E.G.O. at least for each sinner primarily. Even if we were to assume that they revert the Base E.G.O. & ID Costs and have them be free, the amount of new IDs & E.G.O. currently being supplied is far too high to reasonably keep up with everything between the Uptie IV's + new ID's. "That's how gatchas are" some might say, but that doesn't remove the point that it's anti-player regardless.

I definitely feel like this argument falls under having given players many choices, resources, and freedom as a player at the beginning of the game, and they begin taking them away as the life of the game goes on. if these requirements/limitations were in the game at the start similar to the high amounts of E.G.O. Shards needed, I think everyone playing now would have been more readily accepting of these values since that's what they came to expect when continuing playing the game. But the fact that they are adding more restrictions when they started so generously before is a major whiplash.

[Demonking]

At least the Hard mode change should hopefully allow us to tier 4 one or two 3 star identities with one run provided we have the threads already. I actually think the high thread cost is sort of a benefit? Since it means we'll be less inclined to not purchase identities and egos from the dispenser due to the relative ease of actually getting enough ego shards for tier 4 if we don't want to sell off all our shards.

Base egos not upgrading anymore after tier 3 though feels okay I guess? You can get enough ego shards to uptie them after one mirror dungeon and enough threads within 3 days of minimal/time energy investment. The fact they will (hopefully) but able to keep up with content after that uptie retains some of the F2P elements of the game relatively well. Of course Thread spanning is a lot more expensive than that but to be honest the most important part of the game is the IDs. It's highly unlikely tier 4 egos will be able to make as big of an impact on your victory chances as what your Ids will.

[RedCobra]

the cost is too much bro.

you forgot we only get 6 threats from luxifications and that is 3 times only each days.

thats too low & need long days of waiting every single days.

[SmallGespenst]

the Issue is that the costs ensure that there's no room for experimentation. Even upgrading one ID per Sinner is prohibitively expensive, even before getting into EGO, so doing anything aside from upgrading the one strongest ID per Sinner and maybe a few busted EGO like Legerdemain and Fluid Sac is agony to justify doing.
the system as described is basically just a simple way to make sure that any new IDs will need to be Ninclair tier to see any use, since funding 250 thread + 50 shards to experiment with an ID that looks to be mediocre (R-salt for example) is just not justifiable.

[Nyxtus]

Just like every game that incorporates this kind of a system, they will not buff the mid-tier identities enough compared to the top tier identities. As a result, the top-tier identities will remain stronger than the post-buffed mid-tier identities. The stronger identities get stronger, and with how prohibitive the cost is you will prioritize the meta units you were already using.

Sure, this wouldn't be a problem normally because if you buff the mid-tier identities because they could fulfill a useful niche - problem is, again, the cost of uptie-4 means you don't have the resources to experiment with.

I have seen this happen in every single game that does this, and it will happen here again. I promise you. They either release upgrading for non-meta units only or you release lackluster buffs for already over-performing identities making the incentive zero.

It's not a well thought out system.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by Nyxtus:

Just like every game that incorporates this kind of a system, they will not buff the mid-tier identities enough compared to the top tier identities. As a result, the top-tier identities will remain stronger than the post-buffed mid-tier identities. The stronger identities get stronger, and with how prohibitive the cost is you will prioritize the meta units you were already using.

Sure, this wouldn't be a problem normally because if you buff the mid-tier identities because they could fulfill a useful niche - problem is, again, the cost of uptie-4 means you don't have the resources to experiment with.

I have seen this happen in every single game that does this, and it will happen here again. I promise you. They either release upgrading for non-meta units only or you release lackluster buffs for already over-performing identities making the incentive zero.

It's not a well thought out system.

it should be noted that the teased upgrade for W-Salt actually works to make him significantly more viable, his S1 generates an effective 5 charge for the next turn, letting his other skills get their bonus on turn 2, and factoring in the power-ups his S3 is genuinely good, a four coin skill peaking at power 17 is not weak except in comparison to the most disgusting IDs.
Which makes it more of a shame that the high cost ensures that experimenting to see how viable he is now is too expensive to justify, I'd love to try him out, but not enough to hand-wave an effective 200 thread cost.

[Nyxtus]

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

Originally posted by Nyxtus:

Just like every game that incorporates this kind of a system, they will not buff the mid-tier identities enough compared to the top tier identities. As a result, the top-tier identities will remain stronger than the post-buffed mid-tier identities. The stronger identities get stronger, and with how prohibitive the cost is you will prioritize the meta units you were already using.

Sure, this wouldn't be a problem normally because if you buff the mid-tier identities because they could fulfill a useful niche - problem is, again, the cost of uptie-4 means you don't have the resources to experiment with.

I have seen this happen in every single game that does this, and it will happen here again. I promise you. They either release upgrading for non-meta units only or you release lackluster buffs for already over-performing identities making the incentive zero.

It's not a well thought out system.

it should be noted that the teased upgrade for W-Salt actually works to make him significantly more viable, his S1 generates an effective 5 charge for the next turn, letting his other skills get their bonus on turn 2, and factoring in the power-ups his S3 is genuinely good, a four coin skill peaking at power 17 is not weak except in comparison to the most disgusting IDs.
Which makes it more of a shame that the high cost ensures that experimenting to see how viable he is now is too expensive to justify, I'd love to try him out, but not enough to hand-wave an effective 200 thread cost.

Yep, that's the problem with the system being available to every single identity instead of just under-performing identities. Mersault looks like some awesome changes, perhaps could facilitate some unique team-building based around the changes. It doesn't matter though because with the current top-tier identities getting buffed alongside him, the only way to experience and experiment with his changes would be to give-up on enhancing the already meta units.

It's a result of uptie-4 being so absurdly expensive. Most everyone is going to uptie-4 the already good units and -maybe- check out the weaker identities later, if they happen to get the resources for it.

It's really disappointing and unfortunate. I really do want to be excited for this, but with md2 and soon rr2 I have to focus the meta units first.

Plus, look at the OP - while defending the system he admits he's going to T4 the meta units he has first. For somebody defending this system it sure is telling that their plan is to T4 the meta ♥♥♥♥ first without mention of the more subpar identities.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by DragonCorpVI:

From comparing the displayed images of tier 4 salt and the current tier 3 salt, it's looks likes an overall big change and this is considering how strong some of 3 star and even 2 star ID's can be and this goes for ego's as well
completely fine.

ultimately a really worrying thing is the leaked W-salt upgrade, cause sure, it's a really significant upgrade. But in a tier 3 roster, he'd only be "pretty decent". Even small upgrades for everyone else will still shunt him back into the dumpster of "arguably the worst 3*"

[DragonCorpVI]

Originally posted by Craossa Senpai:

ID's are mostly alright since 50 shards aren't too big of an issue depending on how many ID's you want to use for the sinner, but the E.G.O. Costs for Shards are way too high to reasonably grind for while saving for Hard-Sparking ID's, since you're going to be using Base + one other E.G.O. at least for each sinner primarily. Even if we were to assume that they revert the Base E.G.O. & ID Costs and have them be free, the amount of new IDs & E.G.O. currently being supplied is far too high to reasonably keep up with everything between the Uptie IV's + new ID's. "That's how gatchas are" some might say, but that doesn't remove the point that it's anti-player regardless.

I definitely feel like this argument falls under having given players many choices, resources, and freedom as a player at the beginning of the game, and they begin taking them away as the life of the game goes on. if these requirements/limitations were in the game at the start similar to the high amounts of E.G.O. Shards needed, I think everyone playing now would have been more readily accepting of these values since that's what they came to expect when continuing playing the game. But the fact that they are adding more restrictions when they started so generously before is a major whiplash.

I will agree PM has caused a bit of a shakeup with the amount of changes they've made in the past few months and largely I think it's due to one reason which I think most of us think it is and that's PM are doing a lot of these changes and preparations for the changes out of order without factoring in previous changes they've made or future changes/additions they will do.

I know quite a bit of people simply say "just increase the amount of rewards we get from the dungeons, thread and EXP Luxcavations" and if PM does that, they'll need to be careful how much they'll need to increase it, too much and it becomes too easy to farm stuff and PM will lose money, too little and it won't simply be good.

But see here is the other thing, even when they find that good middle ground, once they increase the lvl cap again and possibly add tier 5 or some new ID upgrade system, whatever good middle ground change they've had previously, won't be good anymore, eventually PM will keep having to change things up again and change stuff around.

PM wants tier 4 to be the next game changer and making sure tier 4 is not easily attained because of how stronger they'll made the ID's and ego's, which is fine, but they need to be careful of how they implement these new additions along with their changes.

I'm not opposed or for increasing rewards (expect slightly increasing the lunacy amount in the MD hard mode) because that's not what is needed, what I am for is PM needing to add in things that almost all F2P/gacha games have, which is daily login's, daily, weekly and chapter missions, which I don't know why PM haven't added those at all, because those things help keep a steady, reliable recourse income for players day by day, week by week, chapter by chapter besides just the regular farming mode and without giving too much.

All in all, it's mostly not them adding in restrictions or such, PM just has a big problem of doing things out of order and not properly considering past or future changes/additions they will do and preparations for such things, examples of this is when PM said tier 4 and RR2 were gonna release together, but now they aren't due to tier 4, MD hard mode got pushed back due to tier 4 as well if I remember. And again, they really need to add in daily login's, daily, weekly and chapter missions. PM may be a generous game company, but this is a live service online game and they also need to make money, not only for themselves and their employees, but also for their future projects, if they want to nudge nudge to their players a little to buy the packs in the shop that cost real money, that's fine, they just have to make sure they balance it.


On a side note:
Hell, PM could, or should add in an item dispenser shop in the dispenser tab as well, that has random amounts of items in that refreshes every few hours or daily and can be exchanged with (probably the only best option) a new type of currency that you earn by like the amount of time you play the game each day or something.

Originally posted by RedCobra:

the cost is too much bro.

you forgot we only get 6 threats from luxifications and that is 3 times only each days.

thats too low & need long days of waiting every single days.

You're also forgetting you can convert ego shards to threads, you don't have to hog all of your ego shards, if anything really, you only need to hog the ego shards for a Sinner of a current chapter to the next one as they will have a 3 star related chapter ID

And the cost isn't the problem, the problem is PM not adding in ways for players to earn things to upgrade their ID's