Tote is unplayable/fun?

[immorom]

I haven't finished a single run with Tote even once
At the first glance, she doesn't have huge single-target nor "splash" damage
Yes, maybe there is a couple items that makes her playable (tho I haven't discovered a single one), but this will feel so much worse than literally every other character, which have dozens of builds and even more ways to play
Most of guides straight tell you: try to negotiate your reliance on carving as much as you can and try to build around regular items
Maybe tossing should be free, maybe carving cycling should be quicker and, perhaps, you should be theoretically able to make multiple tosses in one turn – I don't know, but I filled the feedback form somewhere n the past, but it feels like nothing changed. Do people really enjoying playing this character? How?

[kakkorotto1]

Originally posted by cqhuang12345:

In addition to what was already said, I also just think Tote doesn't mechanically play well. It feels like she needs 3 clicks and rotates to accomplish what every other character does in one, and having to drag everything for every action instead of setting it once and clicking it makes even the introductory mook fights feel like a constipated slog by comparison, even if (especially if) you know you're going to win. It's fine for some characters to have different playstyles or be more difficult than others, but the play interface just feels noticeably degraded from the other characters, and I personally don't think "making the character more frustrating/time-consuming to play with" is a good way of raising game difficulty.

Also, don't know if there's a way around this and I'm a noob for not knowing, but just to add insult to injury, the carvings don't even have the same dragging mechanic when you want to add them to your inventory, and clicking one just adds it to your deck with no warning or "are you sure" pause.

Oh, you clicked on a carving either by accident or it was covering up another one on the rewards screen? Congrats, you now have an extra random carving in your deck...which totally won't be a problem in a deckbuilder.

The deckbuilding might be fine as a side mechanic, but having it as the core inescapable mechanic of the character makes the good parts less noticeable and the bad parts that much more dominant.

I learned that you don't have to take that item you click on. It's obtuse, but you click on your deck and then the last card would be the item you clicked. Right click it and then you can return it.

This needs a better functionality , like it goes to the left of the screen over the deck so you can just click to return it and if you don't, then it will take it upon movement.
Other thing is that Chests and NPCs can give you a few items at once and they tend to overlap. So if you want to see what is under you click on something and it takes that card instantly before you can see what the real items is.
Have to use the above method to return the card since you touched it. But if the items didn't overlap it wouldn't be an issue.
Had the same thing happen on the other characters when I got the "treasure" person. They threw all the "treasures" in the right corner behind the map basically and couldn't grab them all .

[mb]

The most important tactic I've found with Tote is taking as few carvings as you can. As others have said, consistency is the most important thing for deckbuilders, and the best way to ensure consistency is a smaller deck (aka fewer carvings).

However, I've also found that the "Natural" modifier from the forge can really lock in a run's success even if you're already playing with a tiny deck of carvings. Even with only 10 carvings in your deck, Natural ensures that you will have predictable hands.

Archery builds with Tote seem to be very good, in my experience, especially once you get the arrows that do +5 for every row and especially once you've got Natural on your bow. Other than that, I like to lean into sap since they don't require you to discard your backpack and you can keep cycling carvings. The candles that let your discard carvings are also useful, i like one of these in my archery builds if I'm using shields like Acorns and I don't have an actual usable shield.

For the sap, I prefer only using the +10 block saps or the +8 poisons. Stacking 3 of those for 24 poison or 30 block every turn or every other turn can be very powerful, poison especially. I usually add 3 poisons and 1-2 blocks depending on the deck I've got so far.

Anyway, Tote just requires a different way of thinking than the other characters. I honestly am hoping they don't nerf her too much, I really like deckbuilders and despite my initial frustrations (mostly due to me misunderstanding how she works) I'm really having fun with Tote's mechanics.

[flatgoat]

There are some points were tote has a clear disadvantage in comparison to the other caracters:
- If you have energy but no carvings to use there is no ability to redraw cards. It would be great th have a redraw mecanic for energy
- Even in focused decks it can happen that you do not draw the carvings you need and can not counter the things the enemy trows at you. This feels just bad if you are not able to block becourse 2 of the carvings you draw are not for blocking. Happend to me even in the block run and just does not feel fun.
With other caracters you can mitigate damage way better and it feels like the healing abilitys do not scale well with increasing enemy difficulty
- it is very hard to find keys with her. Have had several chests locked were there was not even the possibility to find a key beforehand

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by BEPIS:

You have to pick a build at the beginning and stick to it.

Which is EXACTLY the wrong way to do a roguelike deckbuilder. It's the literal definition of "polar opposite", and what it's the opposite of is the right way to do a roguelike deckbuilder.

But maybe that's this game's whole problem? That they're doing the roguelike deckbuilder stuff bass-ackwards? It would explain a lot, like the item magnetism/weight mechanic, which should never be necessary. And if it is, you know you've done a bad job balancing the game.

Originally posted by mb:

consistency is the most important thing for deckbuilders,

No, consistency is the most important thing for CCG's. Balance is the most important thing for deckbuilders, with consistency being a very close second. But consistency often involves minmaxing, which can frequently be in direct opposition to balance. Part of the challenge is in getting them to mesh properly instead of counteract each other. That's why people coming from CCG's can have a hard time with (properly designed) roguelike deckbuilders, unless they're used to playing draft or even sealed formats.

Originally posted by kakkorotto1:

I learned that you don't have to take that item you click on. It's obtuse, but you click on your deck and then the last card would be the item you clicked. Right click it and then you can return it.

Yeah, you can. And to the best of my recollection, you've always been able to do that, but it's always been a pain in the ass and they've never done anything to improve it. Especially if you have more than one of that carving, but only ONE of them counts as the last carving you took. Thinking about it, though, what might make Tote better is if her carvings worked more like the pack, where you can only have a limited amount of them, but can switch them out freely. But then, that would contribute to this being a CCG rather than a true deckbuilder. I've been replaying the Pokemon TCG game that came out on Game Boy forever ago, and playing this game feels a LOT more like playing that (minus the grind) than it feels like playing StS. But it was expressly stated in the Kickstarter that this game was meant to feel more like playing StS.

[Cass]

the lack of armor round 1 is rough. others get passive armor as options, she doesn't. higher innate hp to compensate for this. but then also doesn't have regen/healing options, which she should have baseline.

another option to really make her more enjoyable is allow you to discard single items out of the backpack at a cost. clear out those acorns without a full toss..

more card draw would help too.

[Lumios]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

Originally posted by BEPIS:

You have to pick a build at the beginning and stick to it.

But maybe that's this game's whole problem? That they're doing the roguelike deckbuilder stuff bass-ackwards? It would explain a lot, like the item magnetism/weight mechanic, which should never be necessary. And if it is, you know you've done a bad job balancing the game.

This is what I've been saying since day one. Items are poorly designed and are either way too strong or way too weak. And by "way too strong", I mean beat the whole game in one sitting strong. Enemies are likewise too weak to tank the hits, but otherwise deal too much damage, and bosses are generally too easy and can be taken out swiftly apart from a couple of them that do pose a real challenge.

[ImBlackMagic]

i think the most egregious flaw on Tote is that as soon as you accidentally click a carving it gets added to your deck.... it really goes against the whole game rules you've learned with the other characters, namely "you can pick up and throw out items at will", that doesn't apply to Tote's carving deck at all

the deck starts with too much carvings to build around efficiently

she's overall several orders of magnitude harder to play than the other characters, simply because you can't tweak your build as freely as the other characters, maybe throwing out carvings from the deck at will would helps tons

[Aeralis]

Tote is absolutely miserable to play, but after my most recent run I've decided the whole Tote situation is frustrating for another reason: She'd be a LOT of fun if you could collect magic items. I absolutely love the magic system in this game, and Tote seems built specifically to take advantage of it, what with the heavy encouragement to run an empty bag. Indeed, my last run involved me having a whole row of mana stones, and a lot of my totem drafts involved magic items. The problem was how there was absolutely no way to actually swing my build into using any of it. I spent the whole run looking at my empty bag wishing I could build a cool mana network in it.

If Tote could find some actual items she'd probably be my favorite. Being able to have a normal magic build while balancing free space for totems actually sounds like a lot of fun, and it would avoid the awkward situation we have now where the game all about inventory management has a character that spends the bulk of her time with a completely empty inventory. But this whole relying entirely on totems thing is simply not fun, the game isn't built well for it and the totems themselves aren't strong enough to carry an entire build unless you luck into one of a handful of specific builds.

Like, Satchel can get instruments AND weapons, why can't Tote get totems AND wands? Why does Satchel get a new set of mechanics that synergize really well with the base game and Tote just dumps the whole game into the garbage and pull out a pack of Uno? If the totems were rebalanced to fill a more supportive role and Tote just had a drop pool restricted to magic-related items she'd be GREAT.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by Aeralis:

the whole Tote situation is frustrating for another reason: She'd be a LOT of fun if you could collect magic items. I absolutely love the magic system in this game, and Tote seems built specifically to take advantage of it,

Lol, yeah, she actually was. Those 2 blue orbs on her pack were originally supposed to work like free mana stones. They had other good ideas for her, too, like illusory spaces, and being able to get the same items the others can. But they scrapped those, and kept the bad ones.

[Robo]

Someone here gave an advice about working Tote build and since then I have turned every run into this build and never lost a run (yes I dont like the hero so I just wanted to win what was needed to win and never touch this hero again - this build can be a bit boring but can become completely ridiculous).

First - you do not want to do anything that requires you to toss away your bag.

Idea is to spam sap and be invincible while doing that.

Required piece:
- Wiz buckler. Not sure what the droprate is, but I got it easily on every run I have done with Tote so I think its pretty high droprate. Basicaly you pick every manastone you find and with this buckler you can have insane block without problems. Enchant it with natural.

Strongly recommended pieces:
- Daughter's Diary -, again I was able to get this in every run with Tote, sometimes it took some time, but I got it in the end

Dreaming Ring - it is final piece of the build, if you get this and have all other parts, you cannot lose.

How to get there:
General rule:
- dont pick stuff that costs energy to cast, you need that for blocking
- remove thash pieces from your deck, Oak slump, everything that costs energy to play - shops and events (many events allows you to remove carvings actually - gamble for same rarity, size (there is also one which allows you to gamble your pieces repeatedly for like 2 or 3 golds) - all these will create carving which you can refuse to pick. effectively removing the carving you gambled for


Start with picking defense:

- Pinecone is good start, combine with Acorn Cap, dont overshoot with these as you will want to remove them. Dont fall into trap of picking Oak slump, if you got it from start - remove asap.

- Dreaming buckler is good item in early / midgame as well, put it in separate place and keep putting sap around it so it scales if you need it at some point.

Basicaly pick any sap you find, defense / dodge sap is more valuable at start - but again, dont over shoot with them as later on you want damage saps and not defense ones as you will be invincible in late game.

Think how you want to win - for damage use what you got for the challenge usually; Mossy mace is good start, towards the end I tend to use only saps

Build up for lategame:
- you want to have key pieces in bag and only sap in your deck
- once you have enough sap, start removing acorns from your deck and play sap around your pinecone for free armor (pinecone is natural so you can use it for defense right away)
- once you get Dreaming ring you can remove Dreaming buckler, put it slightly away from your pinecone and start playing saps around it for even more block as it works even for diagonal casts
-- once you get here and you are playing saps around ring instead of Pinecone I use this place in bag for some support items I might put into bag for some additional invincibility - Enoki Mushrooms (worse) and mainly Chantrelle - if you get more than 1 of this mushroom it will start building Haste indefinitely, in some runs I got to the point that I had over 300 block every turn from just casting saps around the ring

Preferred relics:
1) Ice Cream
2) anything that increases energy and you are able to utilize
3) Shield spirit

Pick some Green heart and Mossy carving to heal that poison damage you receive there and there (not more than 3).

If I have all the pieces together, then towards the end I usually start picking some poison carving (1 or 2) if there is not good damage sap option available (poison prefered).
Also I usually start to remove the defensive saps as well as I dont need them and I need more damage, poison works for me best - but you can experiment with the damage saps and see what works for you.

In some runs it became quite slow play (depends on what you get) but in the end I always prevailed when I played this build and won the run.

[arrow]

Tote is absolutely unplayable and frustrating to play. She should be able to pickup standard items along the carvings.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by Robo:

Someone here gave an advice about working Tote build and since then I have turned every run into this build and never lost a run

But that doesn't solve the main problem. In fact, that's PART of the main problem. If only a very small handful out of the many possible builds are actually viable, that's bad design.

Originally posted by arrow:

She should be able to pickup standard items along the carvings.

More accurately, she should STILL be able to pick up standard items along with the carvings.

[Duodecimus]

Originally posted by ImBlackMagic:

i think the most egregious flaw on Tote is that as soon as you accidentally click a carving it gets added to your deck.... it really goes against the whole game rules you've learned with the other characters, namely "you can pick up and throw out items at will", that doesn't apply to Tote's carving deck at all

You actually can, but only in the same room you picked it up in.
if you mistakenly added an item you can open your deck and right click it to remove it again

[BoogieWoogie]

Totes is easy when you stop collecting every carving after battle/chest you see like some hoarder. Less is better. Quality over quantity.

Obviously, you need to go with deck synergy as others pointed out. And again don't touch items/hoard things you don't need. Use shops to remove carvings as well that you don't need to deck thin.

Carvings of importance.
+++Anything that card draws should be pronto.
Some of these have a banish effect so you may have to time when using them, less you have a synergy build to keep card drawing like that dumb 3 gold summon axe that card draws when plant cards are played next to it.(I had the plants that recycle as consumables and the axe was a consumable so I ended up doing infinite combo with that in one run with that + that other plant item that refreshes consumables to full + the candless or whatever to recycle the usage refresher.)
+Also if you use the 0 cost axe that draws 1 once per turn with this when used, remember you can't have existing armor/shields in pack. (I don't remember if you can play a shield or armor if it is already summoned or not.)

++Energy builders. To me, these are usually secondary, but I still pick them up if I see them. Of course, do not go hoarding these either.

+Recyclers. These are also good depending on the build. If you don't want to toss everything and start fresh. By recyclers, I mean anything that will recycle a placed carving like the Candles.

+/- Banish Carvings, these are hit or miss. Again it depends on the deck and build. Some effects are good like the frog face one where you take 2 damage and discard hand/draw a new hand(this does not affect existing already placed carvings in battle.) For 2 damage with a one time use per battle with a new hand, it seems worth it to me.
-Don't get too many banish carving types as you want to avoid deck clutter. Even if they banish for that battle and return to deck, you don't need too many where you can't draw your key carvings/cards. (The only exception to this IMHO, is the 0 cost one that draws 2, feel free to stock up on many of that one as you want if you can find multiples of it.)

Things I Avoid.
These are just other personal things, if others have better luck with them go for them.
-Gems. I never had any good going with these carvings. If I do pick them, at most I will go for the 0 cost one that stays and gives +3 to weapon(I think it was?)
-Saps. I tried, but they feel like too deck cluttery to me. When I did use them I went with either poison or dodge as opposed to damage dealing ones.
---Legendary Plant that Row Summons. OK. Somehow I finish a run with it, but I avoid this thing like the plague now. It looks good, but here's the thing. If you don't have a way of dealing with it, any leftovers go back into your carving deck.
---Curse Chests. Should go without saying, but every battle you only get a pick 3. If you open a curse chest, guess what? Now you have a pick 2 or less. Also, I am pretty sure those chests you not going to find anything worthwhile but end up having your rewards futher lowered when doing a run till you cleanse yourself.

When you start unlocking the other quests with Tote and play around with starter items, you will learn how to play her(?) better. The easiest quest to me was the one with the sword and plant items, I end up getting that dumb 3 gold axe and the run afterwards was basically a cakewalk to the point I finish final boss in cold area in less than five turns; due to having good many attack boost mushrooms(plant,) the usage blue looking recovery ones(plant) the default defense ones(plant) a banish card drawer, one axe that card draws once per turn and my remaining two items were one candle to row cycle and the one +1 energy boost when played carving for that turn.

[Robo]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

But that doesn't solve the main problem. In fact, that's PART of the main problem. If only a very small handful out of the many possible builds are actually viable, that's bad design.

I agree - its bad design. I hate the hero as well. It was reply to his plea that he cannot win single run with her.

I just used this build for the runs I needed and never touched her again.