Bosses spamming wake up attacks

[Capet]

Why is every boss in the game programmed to spam a wake up attack every single time they are hit, and why does it do so much damage. There is so much combo potential in the game, but it all goes out the window vs boss fights because they punish you for trying to take your hit as far as possible. Mei's wake up attack is literally a one shot (not kidding, its a 3x 25 damage, it deletes most characters in 1 hit). I would rather face these bosses with 25%+ hp but without this non sense, or add a bar on top of the boss's hp that acts as a cooldown for the wake up, so you know when you can go for a combo.

[William Shakesman]

One of the tips you unlock explain it but basically the bosses can do the same air tech->counter you can and you're supposed to NOT be trying to juggle them all day because they can do it at any point knocked back. I know that doesn't make it easier because it means you have to tend to hold your specials back in the kitty so you can dash cancel away but it does mean the devs want you to try to counterplay against it.

[Persona Au Gratin]

You can exploit it in 1v1 situations because a lot of the same ways enemies will kill you are ways you can keep them in the air indefinitely. Jimmy with the upgraded running attack can launch the final boss and keep him in the air indefinitely. But the emphasis isn't necessarily on just knowing what attacks you can string together. My problem is that if Jimmy does a finisher in this situation, to cash out on damage with his air slam vs a smaller enemy, that air tech punishes him for doing a crowd control move that already costs meter.

The system isn't really elegant, and I do think that's a legitimate criticism in the 1v1 mode. But move like Billy or Jimmy's running attacks do so much to set up offense, it's just that the game spends so much time spelling out what a correct decision is that these moments where you have to think outside of the box haven't really been given time to breathe.

[FelpsFGCYT]

we need some i frames. thats it

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by FelpsFGCYT:

we need some i frames. thats it

AGREED. It's really amateurish to expect the player to "dodge take turn" with a bunch of stuff on screen like there's an actual rhythm or spacing in the situations you can end up getting put in. Especially considering that jumping attacks put most of the cast in an awful position situation with poor options.

[Capet]

Originally posted by FelpsFGCYT:

we need some i frames. thats it

iFrames don't fix the problem that I stated. I actually don't mind that there are little no no iFrames in this game. Mania+ in streets of rage is boring to me because it's just abusing iframes.

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

You can exploit it in 1v1 situations because a lot of the same ways enemies will kill you are ways you can keep them in the air indefinitely. Jimmy with the upgraded running attack can launch the final boss and keep him in the air indefinitely. But the emphasis isn't necessarily on just knowing what attacks you can string together. My problem is that if Jimmy does a finisher in this situation, to cash out on damage with his air slam vs a smaller enemy, that air tech punishes him for doing a crowd control move that already costs meter.

The system isn't really elegant, and I do think that's a legitimate criticism in the 1v1 mode. But move like Billy or Jimmy's running attacks do so much to set up offense, it's just that the game spends so much time spelling out what a correct decision is that these moments where you have to think outside of the box haven't really been given time to breathe.

You can exploit it, yes, but it's just not fun. I want to take my hit as far as possible. Every single boss's most dangerous attack is the wake up aerial that they spam every chance they get, it's get tedious.

For the record, I actually really like this game and this is one of the few problems I have with it, but it's a big one.

Also Mei doing 75 damage + with a single wake up aerial is just silly lol

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by Capet:

Originally posted by FelpsFGCYT:

we need some i frames. thats it

You can exploit it, yes, but it's just not fun. I want to take my hit as far as possible. Every single boss's most dangerous attack is the wake up aerial that they spam every chance they get, it's get tedious.

For the record, I actually really like this game and this is one of the few problems I have with it, but it's a big one.

Also Mei doing 75 damage + with a single wake up aerial is just silly lol

I mean, you don't like iFrames... but I definitely like the lack of emphasis on corny juggle combinations. You say it's not fun, but I guess we're at an impasse because it's one of the game's few redeeming qualities and I think you outright saying that tells me they did something good!

[Capet]

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

Originally posted by Capet:

You can exploit it, yes, but it's just not fun. I want to take my hit as far as possible. Every single boss's most dangerous attack is the wake up aerial that they spam every chance they get, it's get tedious.

For the record, I actually really like this game and this is one of the few problems I have with it, but it's a big one.

Also Mei doing 75 damage + with a single wake up aerial is just silly lol

I mean, you don't like iFrames... but I definitely like the lack of emphasis on corny juggle combinations. You say it's not fun, but I guess we're at an impasse because it's one of the game's few redeeming qualities and I think you outright saying that tells me they did something good!

I personally don't see how killing a boss with a repetition of the same x-x-x 3 hit combo over and over and abusing the game's faulty AI is more fun than pulling off combos. To each their own.

[76561199473012718]

Originally posted by FelpsFGCYT:

we need some i frames. thats it

There's a tip in the game you can unlock that tells you about I-Frames!

[Titan]

Originally posted by Modus Games:

Originally posted by FelpsFGCYT:

we need some i frames. thats it

There's a tip in the game you can unlock that tells you about I-Frames!

Yeah and that tip is not good. Jumping to avoid attacks is not always viable, as you'll just land into another attack (or need to double jump which then has insane landing recovery where you're going to get hit out of it). Specials need some form of invincibility in this game, because as it is right now there are a lot of situations where it is completely impossible to avoid getting hit.

[Tetsuo9999]

Originally posted by Capet:

Originally posted by Persona Au Gratin:

I mean, you don't like iFrames... but I definitely like the lack of emphasis on corny juggle combinations. You say it's not fun, but I guess we're at an impasse because it's one of the game's few redeeming qualities and I think you outright saying that tells me they did something good!

I personally don't see how killing a boss with a repetition of the same x-x-x 3 hit combo over and over and abusing the game's faulty AI is more fun than pulling off combos. To each their own.

Definitely agree with you, I want to explore the combo system but the random tech outs really get in the way. I feel they tech too much given how much damage their bursts do and because the SP system limits combos anyway.

[Titan]

Originally posted by Tetsuo9999:

Originally posted by Capet:

I personally don't see how killing a boss with a repetition of the same x-x-x 3 hit combo over and over and abusing the game's faulty AI is more fun than pulling off combos. To each their own.

Definitely agree with you, I want to explore the combo system but the random tech outs really get in the way. I feel they tech too much given how much damage their bursts do and because the SP system limits combos anyway.

The SP system and the infinitely spawning enemies too. I feel like even if the bosses didn't tech out you still wouldn't be able to do much to them because of the constantly spawning enemies and lack of i-frames on specials.

[hellscream]

Originally posted by Modus Games:

Originally posted by FelpsFGCYT:

we need some i frames. thats it

There's a tip in the game you can unlock that tells you about I-Frames!

Can you show me a video of you clearing the last boss on default solo? Would like to see how you stop the combo to death + CC by jumping.

[Billy Blaze]

Originally posted by Modus Games:

Originally posted by FelpsFGCYT:

we need some i frames. thats it

There's a tip in the game you can unlock...

"Fight'N Rage" did something like that and I never understood this mentality...

[MachTackle]

Originally posted by Billy Blaze:

Originally posted by Modus Games:

There's a tip in the game you can unlock...

"Fight'N Rage" did something like that and I never understood this mentality...

The thing that Fight'N Rage did that I thought was a very odd decision was making the Easy difficulty setting an unlockable item that you had to purchase in the in-game shop with coins that you'd earn from playing Arcade mode on the Normal difficulty setting.

You'd either have to finish the game on Normal to earn enough coins or just die a lot of times.

[Billy Blaze]

Originally posted by MachTackle:

Originally posted by Billy Blaze:

"Fight'N Rage" did something like that and I never understood this mentality...

The thing that Fight'N Rage did that I thought was a very odd decision was making the Easy difficulty setting an unlockable item that you had to purchase in the in-game shop with coins that you'd earn from playing Arcade mode on the Normal difficulty setting.

You'd either have to finish the game on Normal to earn enough coins or just die a lot of times.

As far as I remember, it wasn't that expensive as an unlock and might was well being the cheapest item in the shop.
You could get it after dying once or so... at least I did.
The only other game I have in mind that is like this is "Devil May Cry 3", where you have to die 3 times in order to unlock the lowest difficulty.
Other games du include some cheat-items after dying too many times, like some "Mario" games.

I think the mentality is, that devs want people to play on the intended difficulty at first, to see, if it's way too much for them.