Is There Any Defense For Spike Traps?

[jungus]

I don't see why these were added to the game. They're not particularly interesting or engaging, they're often in locations that look really out of place, and they seem redundant when turrets, landmines, Snare Fleas, and Hygrodere already exist. They're an addition no one wanted and no one asked for; beta testing showed that no one cared about them, and yet for some reason they still shipped with the update in their current state.

Adding a new hazard that adds nothing to the game should have been an incredibly low priority, especially when the game still has a lot of unaddressed issues weighing it down.

[Cynimatic]

Originally posted by jungus:

Originally posted by Velvet:

That's your fault for the misleading thread title. "Is there any defense for spike traps?" sounds a whole lot like you're asking how to defend yourself against spike traps, when you could have easily made a completely unambiguous title like "Why were spike traps added?" or "What do spike traps add to the game?"

If you read the body then you'd know what I was talking about so I don't see that being an issue.

Originally posted by Cynimatic:

it's a different challenge, timing running under one rather than just not stepping on a mine or sprinting past a turret.

Of course, it requires timing That's why spike traps have a random amount of time when they slam down because they're meant to be high skill and require timing

Originally posted by Jimmy Hunter:

Because Zeekers decided the moons need more traps. There's your reason of why they were added.

So the dev doesn't listen to his players who all said that spike traps were a bad addition and then added them anyways. Sure sounds like the game is headed in a good direction!

go after it slams down, duh

[DrSunshine777]

Originally posted by Cynimatic:

Originally posted by jungus:

If you read the body then you'd know what I was talking about so I don't see that being an issue.


Of course, it requires timing That's why spike traps have a random amount of time when they slam down because they're meant to be high skill and require timing


So the dev doesn't listen to his players who all said that spike traps were a bad addition and then added them anyways. Sure sounds like the game is headed in a good direction!

go after it slams down, duh

"dev doesn't listen to feedback" look at what happened with the jetpack. most changes that people were upset about got fixed, and the spike trap isn't game breaking enough to deserve being removed. it's different enough from the snare flea to be fun (especially because it can kill monsters) and the people whining about it is honestly just a skill issue.

[jungus]

Originally posted by DrSunshine777:

Originally posted by Cynimatic:

go after it slams down, duh

"dev doesn't listen to feedback" look at what happened with the jetpack. most changes that people were upset about got fixed, and the spike trap isn't game breaking enough to deserve being removed. it's different enough from the snare flea to be fun (especially because it can kill monsters) and the people whining about it is honestly just a skill issue.

Congratulations, he reverted one terrible change that should have never even been made to begin with! The dev listens to players

[GaskinZ]

Originally posted by CatAttack009:

Saying spike traps are redundant because of turrets and landmines is just saying there shouldn't be any new hazard because 2 other hazards exist.

Well... Yeah.

Imagine if they add another 10 enemies or traps each with their own unique method of survival, and they all overlap like the spike traps do with other hazards.

Day one, You'd have to slowly assess each room, check the ceiling for spikes and snare fleas, check the floor for shadow demons, check the doors don't say "hold x to die" instead of "hold x to open", check the doors again to see if there's a blinking door-knob bomb on the other side, check the next room for turrets, make sure you brought a friend in case there's a butler, but don't bring three friends in case there's a shy-ster. Oops! Now you have a coil head you gotta watch too, thankfully there's multiple players, but OH NO too late, you've triggered beer-o, and now the whole facility is slowly filling with alcohol, but you don't have any loot yet, and you can't run into the next room quickly as theres' a 20% chance one of these dozens of issues will kill you.

If there was some separation, things would be fine, which is how things were previously, however the issue is spike traps have been incorporated EVERYWHERE, including the basic starting maps.

I don't think anyone here is having any discontent for the DIFFICULTY the spike traps bring, as it's fairly minimal. The REAL issue is how they slow down gameplay EVERYWHERE. A snare flea, the closest comparison, has the EXACT same deterrent, but can be ignored because walking under a snare flea isn't a death sentence, it's not good, but it's not the end. It's in a way FUN to encounter a snare flea because the threat they pose isn't super deadly, but does test your abilities.

Spike traps don't have any of that because they're just death boxes effectively. If you walk here, you will die. Because of that, players have to slow down to check for the spike traps, because they CAN'T ignore their gimmick. You HAVE to slow down, or else you will die to these things. It's not the prospect of avoiding a spike trap that's the issue, it's how the rest of the game plays now that you absolutely HAVE to focus on finding them that leads me to detest the things.

[DrSunshine777]

Originally posted by GaskinZ:

Originally posted by CatAttack009:

Saying spike traps are redundant because of turrets and landmines is just saying there shouldn't be any new hazard because 2 other hazards exist.

Well... Yeah.

Imagine if they add another 10 enemies or traps each with their own unique method of survival, and they all overlap like the spike traps do with other hazards.

Day one, You'd have to slowly assess each room, check the ceiling for spikes and snare fleas, check the floor for shadow demons, check the doors don't say "hold x to die" instead of "hold x to open", check the doors again to see if there's a blinking door-knob bomb on the other side, check the next room for turrets, make sure you brought a friend in case there's a butler, but don't bring three friends in case there's a shy-ster. Oops! Now you have a coil head you gotta watch too, thankfully there's multiple players, but OH NO too late, you've triggered beer-o, and now the whole facility is slowly filling with alcohol, but you don't have any loot yet, and you can't run into the next room quickly as theres' a 20% chance one of these dozens of issues will kill you.

If there was some separation, things would be fine, which is how things were previously, however the issue is spike traps have been incorporated EVERYWHERE, including the basic starting maps.

I don't think anyone here is having any discontent for the DIFFICULTY the spike traps bring, as it's fairly minimal. The REAL issue is how they slow down gameplay EVERYWHERE. A snare flea, the closest comparison, has the EXACT same deterrent, but can be ignored because walking under a snare flea isn't a death sentence, it's not good, but it's not the end. It's in a way FUN to encounter a snare flea because the threat they pose isn't super deadly, but does test your abilities.

Spike traps don't have any of that because they're just death boxes effectively. If you walk here, you will die. Because of that, players have to slow down to check for the spike traps, because they CAN'T ignore their gimmick. You HAVE to slow down, or else you will die to these things. It's not the prospect of avoiding a spike trap that's the issue, it's how the rest of the game plays now that you absolutely HAVE to focus on finding them that leads me to detest the things.

this is single handedly the best anti spike trap argument i've read. it's not just about a skill issue or thinking that it functions the same as a snare flea, it actually focuses on how it affects gameplay. good job for being the most competent person in this thread

[CatAttack009]

Originally posted by GaskinZ:

Day one, You'd have to slowly assess each room, check the ceiling for spikes and snare fleas, check the floor for shadow demons, check the doors don't say "hold x to die" instead of "hold x to open", check the doors again to see if there's a blinking door-knob bomb on the other side, check the next room for turrets, make sure you brought a friend in case there's a butler, but don't bring three friends in case there's a shy-ster. Oops! Now you have a coil head you gotta watch too, thankfully there's multiple players, but OH NO too late, you've triggered beer-o, and now the whole facility is slowly filling with alcohol, but you don't have any loot yet, and you can't run into the next room quickly as theres' a 20% chance one of these dozens of issues will kill you.

Sounds like an issue that was already present before spike traps. I won't disagree that spike traps can be very annoying if it's right behind the door. Not because you can't run past it, because you can, but that the light is in a blind spot. Of course there is the sound you hear while under it but you're most likely not stopping every door to check, so I can see why that part is a problem. (This is specifically about player detection spike traps, interval traps aren't that bad as they easily give their location away with the loud banging)

[Cynimatic]

Originally posted by GaskinZ:

Originally posted by CatAttack009:

Saying spike traps are redundant because of turrets and landmines is just saying there shouldn't be any new hazard because 2 other hazards exist.

Well... Yeah.

Imagine if they add another 10 enemies or traps each with their own unique method of survival, and they all overlap like the spike traps do with other hazards.

Day one, You'd have to slowly assess each room, check the ceiling for spikes and snare fleas, check the floor for shadow demons, check the doors don't say "hold x to die" instead of "hold x to open", check the doors again to see if there's a blinking door-knob bomb on the other side, check the next room for turrets, make sure you brought a friend in case there's a butler, but don't bring three friends in case there's a shy-ster. Oops! Now you have a coil head you gotta watch too, thankfully there's multiple players, but OH NO too late, you've triggered beer-o, and now the whole facility is slowly filling with alcohol, but you don't have any loot yet, and you can't run into the next room quickly as theres' a 20% chance one of these dozens of issues will kill you.

If there was some separation, things would be fine, which is how things were previously, however the issue is spike traps have been incorporated EVERYWHERE, including the basic starting maps.

I don't think anyone here is having any discontent for the DIFFICULTY the spike traps bring, as it's fairly minimal. The REAL issue is how they slow down gameplay EVERYWHERE. A snare flea, the closest comparison, has the EXACT same deterrent, but can be ignored because walking under a snare flea isn't a death sentence, it's not good, but it's not the end. It's in a way FUN to encounter a snare flea because the threat they pose isn't super deadly, but does test your abilities.

Spike traps don't have any of that because they're just death boxes effectively. If you walk here, you will die. Because of that, players have to slow down to check for the spike traps, because they CAN'T ignore their gimmick. You HAVE to slow down, or else you will die to these things. It's not the prospect of avoiding a spike trap that's the issue, it's how the rest of the game plays now that you absolutely HAVE to focus on finding them that leads me to detest the things.

has it ever ocured to you that it was intentional to slow players down and stop them from blindly running around because according to you snare fleas aren't that big of a threat?

[MidnaFeetEnjoyer]

we already have snareflees and other different hazards. I don't think they add anything worthwhile to the game. Just makes the player slow down even more and less able to play. Make them easy to bait and that they permanently break on whiff or console, or both. Otherwise I'm all for for them to be just completely deleted from the game

[Goshin]

Originally posted by Cynimatic:

Originally posted by GaskinZ:

Well... Yeah.

Imagine if they add another 10 enemies or traps each with their own unique method of survival, and they all overlap like the spike traps do with other hazards.

Day one, You'd have to slowly assess each room, check the ceiling for spikes and snare fleas, check the floor for shadow demons, check the doors don't say "hold x to die" instead of "hold x to open", check the doors again to see if there's a blinking door-knob bomb on the other side, check the next room for turrets, make sure you brought a friend in case there's a butler, but don't bring three friends in case there's a shy-ster. Oops! Now you have a coil head you gotta watch too, thankfully there's multiple players, but OH NO too late, you've triggered beer-o, and now the whole facility is slowly filling with alcohol, but you don't have any loot yet, and you can't run into the next room quickly as theres' a 20% chance one of these dozens of issues will kill you.

If there was some separation, things would be fine, which is how things were previously, however the issue is spike traps have been incorporated EVERYWHERE, including the basic starting maps.

I don't think anyone here is having any discontent for the DIFFICULTY the spike traps bring, as it's fairly minimal. The REAL issue is how they slow down gameplay EVERYWHERE. A snare flea, the closest comparison, has the EXACT same deterrent, but can be ignored because walking under a snare flea isn't a death sentence, it's not good, but it's not the end. It's in a way FUN to encounter a snare flea because the threat they pose isn't super deadly, but does test your abilities.

Spike traps don't have any of that because they're just death boxes effectively. If you walk here, you will die. Because of that, players have to slow down to check for the spike traps, because they CAN'T ignore their gimmick. You HAVE to slow down, or else you will die to these things. It's not the prospect of avoiding a spike trap that's the issue, it's how the rest of the game plays now that you absolutely HAVE to focus on finding them that leads me to detest the things.

has it ever ocured to you that it was intentional to slow players down and stop them from blindly running around because according to you snare fleas aren't that big of a threat?

What do you mean by blindly running around? If by that you mean absentmindedly sprinting around the facility, then the player was already deterred from doing that by the previous hazards, including the snare flea, which the guy you're replying to said wasn't super deadly, not that it wasn't a threat. What's important though is that these hazards don't force you to go slow, more so encourage you to be attentive and careful, which often leads to going slower, sure, however, once you get familiar with the threat, you can circumvent it and go faster. The timed spike traps ONLY force you to be slow. They're an irritating noise and an annoyance, even loot bugs are more of a threat.
When it comes to the player detection spike traps, they could be a good hazard, if not for them blending in too much intentionally and unintentionally (clipping through walls for instance, both the spikes and lights warning about them). They also have no mistake allowance and just kill you instantly. The other hazards have some immediate counterplay to them, which I think is more engaging.
Lastly, has it ever occured to you that going slow with the mechanics in place would be like eating cold Spam? Sometimes you need to go fast, like when a vote is cast to leave or when an enemy is chasing you. With mines, turrets and snare fleas, if you've been perceptive when going around the facility, then you know where they are and can manage your stamina and path accordingly, while spike traps require you either to stop in your tracks or take a long detour, which most of the time means you're dunzo.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by Goshin:

Originally posted by Cynimatic:

has it ever ocured to you that it was intentional to slow players down and stop them from blindly running around because according to you snare fleas aren't that big of a threat?

What do you mean by blindly running around? If by that you mean absentmindedly sprinting around the facility, then the player was already deterred from doing that by the previous hazards, including the snare flea, which the guy you're replying to said wasn't super deadly, not that it wasn't a threat. What's important though is that these hazards don't force you to go slow, more so encourage you to be attentive and careful, which often leads to going slower, sure, however, once you get familiar with the threat, you can circumvent it and go faster. The timed spike traps ONLY force you to be slow. They're an irritating noise and an annoyance, even loot bugs are more of a threat.
When it comes to the player detection spike traps, they could be a good hazard, if not for them blending in too much intentionally and unintentionally (clipping through walls for instance, both the spikes and lights warning about them). They also have no mistake allowance and just kill you instantly. The other hazards have some immediate counterplay to them, which I think is more engaging.
Lastly, has it ever occured to you that going slow with the mechanics in place would be like eating cold Spam? Sometimes you need to go fast, like when a vote is cast to leave or when an enemy is chasing you. With mines, turrets and snare fleas, if you've been perceptive when going around the facility, then you know where they are and can manage your stamina and path accordingly, while spike traps require you either to stop in your tracks or take a long detour, which most of the time means you're dunzo.

Yeah the spike traps aren't even very dangerous, they're just annoying.

[GaskinZ]

Originally posted by Cynimatic:

has it ever ocured to you that it was intentional to slow players down and stop them from blindly running around because according to you snare fleas aren't that big of a threat?

Yes, however "slowing the player down" shouldn't be an incentive for the game meta. We already have to deal with tiny stamina, heavy objects, and enemies like the Hydrogere and Coil-head that force you to change your strategy in a reactionary way. If ANYTHING the game meta should have more incentives for you to speed up so you can make mistakes.

And again this is why I'm very much for putting the spike traps somewhere else (like a new interior). The challenge they introduce can fit into the game, it just can't BLANKET the whole game because now, rather than have variety where sometimes you can super-speed through the dungeon and other times you need to take it slow, you ONLY have the option to take it slow.

Imagine the ideal panic scenario. Really think about this now. The ideal panic scenario. Your inventory is full of expensive perfume bottles and clown horns. The apparatus has been pulled and nothing looks familiar. Suddenly a butler appears and you're all alone. He starts to chase you, and you panic run through the facility, giggling to deal with the high stress situation you've been dealt. You pass some turrets and just BARELY manage to avoid their fire. You jump right over a charging thumper and piss off a hoard of loot bugs as you turn corner after corner DESPERATELY trying to find the exit as this hoard of psycho killers inch closer and closer to you....

Only for you to get slammed by a spike trap you didn't see in a room you just entered for the first time...

All that serotonin you built up using your wits and quick reactions to avoid all those interesting hazards.... Wasted as you die in the least interesting way possible. No fight, just slam, oof too bad thank you for playing, all because you had to run through a part of the map you've never seen before.

Land mines do this, but when you die to one of them it ALWAYS feels like it's 100% your fault because they're both visually and audibly obvious. Turrets are a little sneakier, but can ultimately still be dodged once you've triggered one. I've never felt like any of my spike trap deaths were enjoyable in this same way because it's just so.... Underhanded and such a punishment for not moving at a snails pace checking every ceiling before you walk in.

[Cubey]

Waaa

[Mr_Ertex]

https://www.reddit.com/r/lethalcompany/comments/1c8elha/biggest_fu_ever/
(Linking this for some to watch)

This is one of the reasons why I'm not in favor of the spike trap, since it can just be a "insta-die-no-counter" at times. Sure you can argue about the bracken doing the same, but it'll disappear for a hot minute.

I'd argue that the "fun" for this is very low since it does force you to slow pace in a negative tone in a game where speed is the key.

The really only "counter" to them is straight up not encountering them, as some are timed and others aren't. Turrets can be disabled for a short time via Terminal Guy, but Spikes cannot. Mines can be used against monsters, mostly as last resort. (Spikes are unreliable in my opinion.)

On Dine, I had a spike trap fk our crew over because it overridden one of the stairwells and we had no other way down there. It was last day too iirc and we couldn't do jack. I don't remember if we made quota.

But overall I agree that it would be best on a temple-themed moon or something equivalent. Heck even putting it into a specialized room wouldn't be a bad idea to toss around.

The idea isn't *bad*, but snare fleas sort-of already did the job.

[Derpykat5]

I think a good compromise for this would be a variety limiter; put a cap on the number of different traps that can spawn in one map. That way you don't get turrents and mines and spike traps, only two of the three. That keeps the threat while sharply reducing the things you need to look out for at any given time, especially as the day progresses and you lock in what is and isn't present.

[Romans 10:9]

I don't mind the addition of spike traps personally. My only real problem with them is that they seem to spawn in locations that don't make a lot of sense, like the big open glass window rooms in the mansion where they can easily be ignored.

I do like one guy's suggestion of having them be exclusive to a temple-themed interior though.