Nerf Jester Idea

[Alien_Halls]

Jester it is just a run ender. If he spawns, it is over, get all your scraps and leave. I think thats not fun and there should be a way to "counter him". When he starts his music you could run as fast as you can and after you get far from him, he cancel his song and starts looking for another player. He could play his song faster to make this nerf balanced btw.

This way i think he could fit better into the game since you won't just leave the moon due to a jester being there just existing.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by halogamb:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

On topic, does Jester need that much rebalance? The only thing I can think of that doesn't suit its counter options well is that the start up time/aggro is kinda random. He'll either get pissed the moment you enter the facility, or just wander around even after you sprint past. Maybe its a player presence sort of meter that builds, I'm not sure, but having him follow you around without going aggro for longer would make him feel just right.

I don't think the Jester needs to be rebalanced at all. If anything, I think the thumper and spider both need some adjustments.

Or both. Jester is too unpredictable for something that essentially functions on a timer: a lot of the time he'll start up randomly, miles away from staff only for us to be nowhere near the exit. SInce Ghost girl already fills the "marked for death" niche, it only makes sense to give Jester counter play a chance to work, since you're also sacrificing time. I'm not saying he needs to just wander around useless for most of the time, just that his mechanics could use some fine tuning so it makes sense to plan around him. Its not that it's anti-fun, its just...monster design bloat, I guess you'd call it. Theres nothing wrong with making Jester mechanically clear since theres already a lot in game that can kill you instantly with no recourse.

Not sure what spider needs adjustments for, its rather easy to take care of.

[halogamb]

Originally posted by David Wreck'em:

Originally posted by halogamb:

I don't think the Jester needs to be rebalanced at all. If anything, I think the thumper and spider both need some adjustments.

Agreed. Jester is fine overall. I hate to say it because I love the monster itself in casual situations as its the funniest thing to ever happen, but the coilhead isn't super fun in serious playthroughs as one player has to essentially babysit coilhead. Not sure it deserves a serious overhaul, but it'd be nice to have an option to deal with coilhead besides find a dead end and lock it behind a door.

At least with ghost girl the person being haunted can go to the ship and be useful in other ways.

I dunno I think if a way to deal with coil heads is implemented, it should be fairly difficult.

I feel spiders should be one less hit to kill since they two hit kill you and just recently got buffed to make them move faster when at low health. I don't really get why, with how strong it hits and with how fast it moves AND how tricky the hitbox on it is, it then takes 5 hits to kill. It's a bit ridiculous. 4 hits to kill seems less obnoxious while still keeping the spider very threatening. Compared to the thumper which kills you in 3 hits and you can easily kite around corners now and kill in 4 hits, making it not very threatening, the spider just feels ridiculous. If anything, the thumper should be 5 hits to kill.

[Flopert]

Yes.

[Samhouston]

That's literally what the jesters goal is, to force you out of the facility- it's like if "The tank in L4D2 expert mode is too much of a run ender, lets Nerf him but also 'balance' it by making him fly."

[Samhouston]

Originally posted by aKolkaa:

Nerf not only Jester but a Ghost girl too.

I would like a system where, if a Ghost girl appears, you can take pills (if available) and she will disappear. For the Jester, provide a key or two to turn off his song if it starts playing. Something like that.

A special key to reverse his song sounds like a great idea, you could either sell it or use it to try and get more items.

Pills to regain sanity is a pretty good idea, we already got pills so a second use to them would be great.

[halogamb]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Originally posted by halogamb:

I don't think the Jester needs to be rebalanced at all. If anything, I think the thumper and spider both need some adjustments.

Or both. Jester is too unpredictable for something that essentially functions on a timer: a lot of the time he'll start up randomly, miles away from staff only for us to be nowhere near the exit. SInce Ghost girl already fills the "marked for death" niche, it only makes sense to give Jester counter play a chance to work, since you're also sacrificing time. I'm not saying he needs to just wander around useless for most of the time, just that his mechanics could use some fine tuning so it makes sense to plan around him. Its not that it's anti-fun, its just...monster design bloat, I guess you'd call it. Theres nothing wrong with making Jester mechanically clear since theres already a lot in game that can kill you instantly with no recourse.

The Jester is predictable though. It doesn't start up completely randomly. Mechanically that's not how the Jester works unless you have a mod interfering with the programming. The Jester only starts cranking at some point after it has begun following a player. At which point it stands still to do so. then you have between 20-45 seconds before it pops and starts hunting.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by halogamb:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Or both. Jester is too unpredictable for something that essentially functions on a timer: a lot of the time he'll start up randomly, miles away from staff only for us to be nowhere near the exit. SInce Ghost girl already fills the "marked for death" niche, it only makes sense to give Jester counter play a chance to work, since you're also sacrificing time. I'm not saying he needs to just wander around useless for most of the time, just that his mechanics could use some fine tuning so it makes sense to plan around him. Its not that it's anti-fun, its just...monster design bloat, I guess you'd call it. Theres nothing wrong with making Jester mechanically clear since theres already a lot in game that can kill you instantly with no recourse.

The Jester is predictable though. It doesn't start up completely randomly. Mechanically that's not how the Jester works unless you have a mod interfering with the programming. The Jester only starts cranking at some point after it has begun following a player. At which point it stands still to do so. then you have between 20-45 seconds before it pops and starts hunting.

But when does it actually do that? If it follows randomly, then its not predictable.

[Kaelmato]

He already can be countered by simply stepping out of the building for 20 seconds.

The only real problem is when he camps one of the entrances, essentially almost immediately activating every time anyone tries to use said entrance, but that's really a problem with all the other monsters as well and isn't exclusive to the jester. Even then, there are other entrances.

[Alien_Halls]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Originally posted by halogamb:

The Jester is predictable though. It doesn't start up completely randomly. Mechanically that's not how the Jester works unless you have a mod interfering with the programming. The Jester only starts cranking at some point after it has begun following a player. At which point it stands still to do so. then you have between 20-45 seconds before it pops and starts hunting.

But when does it actually do that? If it follows randomly, then its not predictable.

Wiki says Jester will passivelly follow a player for 30 up-to 40 seconds, then it will start cranking and after 44 seconds (duration of the song) it will pop and start killing everyone inside the facility.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by Alien_Halls:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

But when does it actually do that? If it follows randomly, then its not predictable.

Wiki says Jester will passivelly follow a player for 30 up-to 40 seconds, then it will start cranking and after 44 seconds (duration of the song) it will pop and start killing everyone inside the facility.

I'm saying what are the conditions for it to begin following. Is it on proximity or what? It doesn't do it on sight, since you can see it wandering around and even stand on it for a bit.

[Alien_Halls]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Originally posted by Alien_Halls:

Wiki says Jester will passivelly follow a player for 30 up-to 40 seconds, then it will start cranking and after 44 seconds (duration of the song) it will pop and start killing everyone inside the facility.

I'm saying what are the conditions for it to begin following. Is it on proximity or what? It doesn't do it on sight, since you can see it wandering around and even stand on it for a bit.

Wiki says it locks a random player and i think Jester knows where everyone is. When he stand still, probably the player that he was locking left the bunker.

"Rather than detecting players based off of sound, sight, or movement, jesters are always aware of their target's location. This means that attempting to hide from them is a waste of time that could be better spent trying to find a way out of the facility."

[rat trick]

why dont you just dodge the jester

[halogamb]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Originally posted by Alien_Halls:

Wiki says Jester will passivelly follow a player for 30 up-to 40 seconds, then it will start cranking and after 44 seconds (duration of the song) it will pop and start killing everyone inside the facility.

I'm saying what are the conditions for it to begin following. Is it on proximity or what? It doesn't do it on sight, since you can see it wandering around and even stand on it for a bit.

If it sees you. That's it.

[Alien_Halls]

Originally posted by halogamb:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

I'm saying what are the conditions for it to begin following. Is it on proximity or what? It doesn't do it on sight, since you can see it wandering around and even stand on it for a bit.

If it sees you. That's it.

Actually he knows where all players are. So he will randomly lock into one of them and follow him until he leaves the facility.

[halogamb]

Originally posted by Alien_Halls:

Originally posted by halogamb:

If it sees you. That's it.

Actually he knows where all players are. So he will randomly lock into one of them and follow him until he leaves the facility.

It knows where all players are when it becomes aggressive. When it is in passive mode, it just wanders around until it sees someone, then it follows until it starts cranking.