I want jack-in-the-box to avoid the player until it pops.

[Sad Bear.]

It should avoid the player while its still passive, and the way the players prevent it from going aggro would be to chase it down and crank it's handle. Would be fun instead of a "Leave the building timer" it is right now.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

What jack-in-the-box type device irl lets you crank it backwards without causing some sort of internal damage? Genuine question. Because as far as I'm aware, Jester is there pretty explicitly to put pressure, not function like a FNAF jumpscare to be circumvented. You already get about a minute of it not doing anything while unaggroed.

The only thing I think it needs is more random wandering before it goes ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Cuz as is, it can either aggro the moment you step into the building, or like, 5 minutes into an exploration. That way you still get more time to move around and do stuff, but you're also not just trivializing it so that it isn't a threat.

[The Pollie]

People really need to get off this idea that every monster needs a hard-counter. The Jester is one of the only ones that are relentlessly threatening, and that's a good thing.

The game is not EFT. Stop trying to kill everything in sight.

[Dragontoast]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

as far as I'm aware, Jester is there pretty explicitly to put pressure

While effective at that... they suck. They are a terrible part of the game.
On a mansion map it spawning basically shuts down the run, it especially sucks if it is the first spawn and already at entrance.
On a Facility map it can be baited behind a door and locked away forever.
Neither of these are engaging for the player.

While I don't necessarily like OP's idea it at least adds engagement for the player by encouraging a player chases the jester to delay winding.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by The Pollie:

People really need to get off this idea that every monster needs a hard-counter. The Jester is one of the only ones that are relentlessly threatening, and that's a good thing.

The game is not EFT. Stop trying to kill everything in sight.

I agree about 95%. Right now, a competent team can neutralize basically any threat that isn't fueled by RNGesus. It also adds to the excitement, knowing even the best plans can get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you slip up or aren't quick to react.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by Dragontoast:

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

as far as I'm aware, Jester is there pretty explicitly to put pressure

While effective at that... they suck. They are a terrible part of the game.
On a mansion map it spawning basically shuts down the run, it especially sucks if it is the first spawn and already at entrance.
On a Facility map it can be baited behind a door and locked away forever.
Neither of these are engaging for the player.

While I don't necessarily like OP's idea it at least adds engagement for the player by encouraging a player chases the jester to delay winding.

The engagement is already there, continue as you are and loot since its not going to do anything as long as it isn't cranked. Step outside for half a minute, and it goes away again. Or use another exit.

Per the mansion point: thats why you keep a walkie person on the ship with a tele ready. Risk versus reward, pay attention to your map layout and try to get out with items, or just run.

Per the facility: not sure what you mean. While its not aggroed? Sure, you can lock it behind a door, but there is no guarantee a one-way dead end with a mechanical door will always be there. You can also lock away most entities behind doors, thats entirely a situational thing that doesn't account for all scenarios. OP's suggestion just declaws a threat by merely walking up to it, which sounds way more anti-fun than solid preparation.

[Sad Bear.]

Originally posted by The Pollie:

People really need to get off this idea that every monster needs a hard-counter. The Jester is one of the only ones that are relentlessly threatening, and that's a good thing.

The game is not EFT. Stop trying to kill everything in sight.

I never said I wanted to kill it. It is just unfun, it shortens my time interacting with other indoor monsters because I am forced to leave the building whenever the box starts cranking. It's like setting an egg timer and just leaving whenever it goes off. I want to stay in the expensive location getting harassed while I desperately scrounge for loot. I don't want to walk three rooms in, and have to stay near the exit because going deeper is guaranteed death with that box. (Which stands in doors and blocks you, but that's honestly fine.)

There's also a difference between asking for a "hard counter" as you put it, and asking for a way to interact with the monster instead of it just being a time constraint. There would obviously be balancing and tweaks to make it still a threat without it being a push over.

[The Pollie]

How is that any different from landing on a flooded world? Or the shuttle leaving at midnight? What interaction do you have with the little girl?

Your interaction is simple; You get away from it or it kills you. Not everything need a sixty page manual. The game wasn't designed for ultra sweats who think they should be able to consistently get 80,000,000 quotas every night. Guess what; Sometimes you die. Sometimes you do your best and you still die. Sometimes you go to an expensive moon and find absolutely nothing worth bringing back. Sometimes you buy a zap-gun and lose it because you shorted the jump by fractions of an inch.

Get over it. There are always other runs.

[Sad Bear.]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

Originally posted by Dragontoast:

While effective at that... they suck. They are a terrible part of the game.
On a mansion map it spawning basically shuts down the run, it especially sucks if it is the first spawn and already at entrance.
On a Facility map it can be baited behind a door and locked away forever.
Neither of these are engaging for the player.

While I don't necessarily like OP's idea it at least adds engagement for the player by encouraging a player chases the jester to delay winding.

The engagement is already there, continue as you are and loot since its not going to do anything as long as it isn't cranked. Step outside for half a minute, and it goes away again. Or use another exit.

Per the mansion point: thats why you keep a walkie person on the ship with a tele ready. Risk versus reward, pay attention to your map layout and try to get out with items, or just run.

Per the facility: not sure what you mean. While its not aggroed? Sure, you can lock it behind a door, but there is no guarantee a one-way dead end with a mechanical door will always be there. You can also lock away most entities behind doors, thats entirely a situational thing that doesn't account for all scenarios. OP's suggestion just declaws a threat by merely walking up to it, which sounds way more anti-fun than solid preparation.

""declaws"" if the jester is trying to avoid players until it aggros, it would still be a threat. Imagine trying to chase down the music of that thing while you know its about to turn around and go ballistic on you. You would still have the option of just leaving anyways. But I would have a reason to try and seek out the monster to delay its attack. High risk, high reward. It's not like you have to make it work every time too. I.E. "You can only crank it twice before it kills you" Similar to how the braken will still kill people eventually. Stepping outside to de-aggro it is boring, the game should be doing everything it can to keep you searching for that next piece of junk, there's no junk outside, and all the quick loot rapidly disappears as you go deeper.

Yeah, walkie combo is a good way to counter it. Same with practically every other threat in the game. It's the nuclear option.

[Sad Bear.]

Originally posted by The Pollie:

How is that any different from landing on a flooded world? Or the shuttle leaving at midnight? What interaction do you have with the little girl?

Your interaction is simple; You get away from it or it kills you. Not everything need a sixty page manual. The game wasn't designed for ultra sweats who think they should be able to consistently get 80,000,000 quotas every night. Guess what; Sometimes you die. Sometimes you do your best and you still die. Sometimes you go to an expensive moon and find absolutely nothing worth bringing back. Sometimes you buy a zap-gun and lose it because you shorted the jump by fractions of an inch.

Get over it. There are always other runs.

Shuddle at midnight, part of the game loop. You couldn't have lethal company without that time constraint. The box restricts the run so much that it drains the fun from that particular day.

You act like I'm this "sweat lord", when I struggle to meet quote regularly and I love it. I just don't want to be forced to leave the building constantly because a box gets cranky every couple of minutes.

This was an idea, and you are acting like I stepped on your puppy lmao.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

I just frankly don't think the Jester is anti-fun enough to require a total rework. The amount of times in 60 hours I've had to step outside and reset them to non-aggro is minimal to begin with. To me, the (theoretically, haven't played the update yet) pre-nerf giants filled that niche.

[Sad Bear.]

Originally posted by The Fountaineer 🖋:

I just frankly don't think the Jester is anti-fun enough to require a total rework. The amount of times in 60 hours I've had to step outside and reset them to non-aggro is minimal to begin with. To me, the (theoretically, haven't played the update yet) pre-nerf giants filled that niche.

thats fair enough. I expect we will see changes to all of the enemies as tweaks and stuff gets updated over the years. I'm in no rush. It's not like the jester ruins every game.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

I honestly wish I could see it MORE - I only barely figured out they can’t reach you under the Foyer bookcases, the ones slightly out of reach for enemies to path onto. Jester never de-aggroed which is kinda silly; but then again, they are designed to chase you down so matter what. I could see them being made to deaggro if someone is out of reach long enough.

[The Pollie]

Originally posted by Sad Bear.:

Shuddle at midnight, part of the game loop. You couldn't have lethal company without that time constraint.

He is just so damn close to actual realization, but still so damn far.