Jetpacks, fiery funerals for the low low price of all you're worth.

[Duskmare]

TLDR: I think jetpacks are a reasonable price. However, I would like them to be usable, as opposed to how they are now where you can just barely get use out of them in the right situations.

Main suggestion: I would like to see a cheap jetpack and expensive jetpack in the shop. The cheap one should be maybe 50-200 and not rechargeable, while causing random self-damage on use and exploding in the same amount of time as the current jetpack.
The expensive Jetpack should be rechargable, not have random self-damage, only shuts down on overheat instead of exploding and gives twice or three times as long before overheating. The current price is reasonable enough for this since it can still be lost due to crashing, monster attack, etc.
I would also really like to be able to jetpack while carrying two handed items since they're the ones that take longest to transport anyway and the jetpack is essentially a transport vehicle. Alternatively lowering the weight of the jetpack, while less immersive, would allow running back without a speed penalty (you'd still have one less item slot).


The biggest issues with the jetpacks is the self-damage and possibility of exploding. For the amount of money they cost they should really work pretty reliably. The self-damage on startup seems arbitrary and annoying. It just serves to drain your health before you even enter the dungeon, which is especially bad when enemies tend to kill you in one hit if you're at anything less than maximum health. It means using the jetpack is a huge detriment to later encounters. It can also wear your health down to critical, which can be especially bad for later when a slightly less than perfect landing will do enough damage to make you critical again, which can easily get you caught out by giants and worms.

There's also the exploding... I think this happens when you overheat the jetpack by using it constantly for maybe 5 seconds or so. On Offence I tried to fly from the ship while it was dropping to the emergency exit and it exploded about half-way there (I was literally horizontal, so full speed). So you really don't get much range on jetpacks and it honestly limits both the usefulness and the fun. Usefulness because I couldn't reach the fire escape in a single trip and fun because you can't just get good and fly at mach speed, or do aero-gymnastics.

Clearly they're only good for using outside. That's fine. However, you are travelling between the ship and the building, which is often faster travel on the way there in exchange for one less item slot on the way back and lower speed on the way back when you're carrying a two handed item (which is almost always the case) due to it's 50 or so weight. Jetpacks are far too expensive to use per player per one way trip, therefore they provide very little benefit. They only really provide benefit on Titan or Offence. On Titan you can drop items over a ledge and almost back to the ship. This means you can fly up with the jetpack and drop it down along with other items. The drop means it's much faster travelling down than up and the jetpack sees decent use here. In Offence you can fly to the pipe almost directly above the ship, then again drop the jetpack over the edge, allowing access to the emergency exit while leaving the jetpack outside the ship.

The difficulty to handle is totally fine. In fact I actually think it's done really well. You can control them really well once you're used to them (especially once you figure out that your vision isn't tied to the movement and you can look where you're flying). Damage on hitting walls and the ground is manageable but maybe a little overtuned. The jetpack doesn't allow you to feather due to the (seemingly) random chance for it to damage you on startup, and because it's power ramps up slowly. It's possible to land without damage but it's very very difficult. My recommendation would be to allow a bit more speed before damage on horizontal collisions and normal fall damage based on vertical down speed (not jetpack collision damage) when landing on your feet. All horizontal movement could be cancelled upon landing on your feet, or it could be maintained in a slide that rapidly slows down, meaning if you land too fast too close to something then you'll still take collision damage. (And that you could do a cool powerslide. Imagine landing perfectly at the edge of the ship and powersliding into safety!)

The amount of charge in jetpacks is totally fine I think. You can do about 4 or 5 max range trips on each charge. Which is just right for getting to the furthest entrances since they take two long jetpack rides to get to, and the nature of the jetpack means you're returning to the ship and can recharge every second trip. As a greedy player I'd always ask for more but as a critic I'd say it's fine as is or even slightly more than is necessary.

Anyway, to conclude: what is the role of the jetpack? To travel between the institution and the ship seems to be the answer. It currently doesn't fill that role due to too many drawbacks and not enough benefits. In my opinion, the fall and collision risks are enough risks for the jetpack, in addition to it being the most expensive equipment in the game. Therefore, I think it would fit better in it's intended role with the ability to carry big items and without the self damage or explosion risk. Though I also think these mechanics can be fun, but maybe on a cheaper and more disposable version of the jetpack.

[Amaterasu]

Hopefully the jetpack will get some love sooner or later, I love it but it's esentially a meme

[RazakelKairo]

I think it has a use-case that's just not explored enough. Its main advantage is as a way for shipmate to get gear back in a lower time, but I only see it as a solid strat when you're at late quotas. When you're at that point it can be beastly though, most notably on Rend, which among the paid-moons is quite underrated that coincidentally also doesn't need much ship support. The team can just focus on trying to get 1k+ outside.

If anything I might need to experiment more with it in soloplay too.

[Duskmare]

Originally posted by RazakelKairo:

I think it has a use-case that's just not explored enough. Its main advantage is as a way for shipmate to get gear back in a lower time, but I only see it as a solid strat when you're at late quotas. When you're at that point it can be beastly though, most notably on Rend, which among the paid-moons is quite underrated that coincidentally also doesn't need much ship support. The team can just focus on trying to get 1k+ outside.

If anything I might need to experiment more with it in soloplay too.

Sure, but usually you find about 1/3rd two handed objects and 2/3rds 1 handed objects. Which means your team is often making multiple runs with a large object each time. So if you're using the jetpack you're rarely saving much time since you're just taking small objects that usually weigh very little anyway. The other team mates will still have to run back the same or almost the same number of times with one heavy item each. So in theory, yes, but in practice not really. It's only really useful for heavy small items like kettles, gold bars, sheet iron, etc.

I went to look up if that damage on lift-off was avoidable or not and it seems to be a bug relating to the gravity changes. I guess since the jetpack makes you much more vulnerable to gravity with it's collision mechanics it sometimes considers you hitting the ground before you can take off. Also apparently you actually can feather the engine pretty reliably and I guess if you're already in the air the random damage isn't a thing. (I had thought it was your crewman randomly burning the back of his legs with the jetpack and it was just a 20% chance to happen, haha.) You should be able to avoid the collision damage then if you time a jump right with takeoff, preventing that seemingly random damage.

So basically most of my points wouldn't be relevant if that bug weren't there. But I'd still like to see the ability to use the jetpack while holding two handed objects.