my honest opinion

[JediPunk]

hey, i played your demo and thx for that upfront.

iam not a developer but i am interested in gamedevelopment. but my opinion here come from a customer pov.

please, build your game uppon a solid foundation. and thats the VR controls! at the moment, the game is unplayable for me. if i wasnt so interested in a "stranded deep" type VR game, i would have lost interest within 30 seconds. the reason: controls.

i imagine that from a developer pov this isnt a big thing. as a developer you want create awesome graphics, and sounds, maybe clean code and creating great level design. but i think , from a customer pov, the butter and bread is the VR controls. if the controls are perfect, the rest of the game is already sold.

in my opinion there is only 1 perfect example to use as a blueprint for VR controls. thats half life 2 VR . the modding team created a mix of awesome standard controls and a user freindly customiseable settings options.

this example is followed by half life alyx.

i think think those overcomplicated exmaples like "into the radius" is not my personal thing. at least the devs from "into the radius" nailed it. there a ton of unreal VR games whith clunky controls (sadly, like yours at the moment), but i dont care about them and i dont pay for them.

it seems there 2 kinds of VR player (at least). those who want to have a simulation and those who wnat to enjoy VR as a game. Half life alyx is for people who like to enjoy the game. into the radius is for people who like to bend down to pick up things.

your game has nothing of both. i realy hope your game gonna be a success no matter what i say. i would not spend my time writing you a message if i werent interested in your game or if i dont see potential in your game idea. you know stranded deep? it starded as a free game on a indi game website. its a success now! i want your game being a success too. it will be, iam confident, even with the pirate theme thats a bit off, that your game will be a success with a flawless VR controls basis.

its all about crontrols in VR. make it perfect first, then build your game uppon it. thats my opinion. so good luck and develop the hell out of this.

your enviroment sound , the graphics and athmosphere is already in your favor. good job. pealing the coconut is the detail i want to see in all gameplay!!!

btw. i died from wolves after i peeled my first coconut. icracked the chest on a second play , used the pistol and quit. without better controls i do not spend more time with your game.

[Bootstrap Island]

Hey! Thanks for the feedback! Completely agreed, great controls are essential in any game and we definitely want to deliver on that. It would also help if you could elaborate on what you found most uncomfortable about the controls that made it unplayable.

[JediPunk]

hello, honestly? you want details? damn, when i was working as a 3D artist i hate it to talk with the community.. upfront, i realy hope your game gonna make it. beside the controls iam very exited to play the game in the future. sorry for my bad english.

what i found most unconfable in your demo:

no toggle crouching
no settings to toggle "toggle crouch on/off"
health/food bar on buttom screen shake when moving. ( i think health and food should not be a floating HUD thing. stranded deep used a watch, the forrest VR also use a watch.
i needed to bend down to pickup things from the ground.(you advertised teleport pickup thing but it was not working when i played the demo)
low audio feedback when holding things in the hand or interact.
no inventory system. half life alyx has a good inventory. more slots then 2 would be nice. i hate the backpack idea in vr, its distracting. the forrest has a nice backpack.
the gravity effect when holding things is to much. i want to feel like iam holding things firm. when it wobbles to much it stress me out.
the grafity effect when smashing a stone on a coconut feels out of control. i would rather create a well sound design feedback then creating that gravity effect. when everything is wobbling around like in surgeon simulator it stress me.
there was teleport in your demo, but there was a very long transition period before the teleport actually apply.
holding things did not feel right in your demo. it was the mix of gravity (weight of the item) and items felt like there floating in my hand ( distance to the model)
i did not try to make a fire but in the videos it looked like they just throw things on a pile. i think thats a bad way to do it. stranded deep did it like that in early development and changed it to a blueprint based model. the key is, everything need to feel like the play is in control. when every hand interaction feels like player jenga or building a house of cards then it feels like stress.
i was reloading the flintlock pistol for exmaple. there was no audio feedback when loading the powder and ball. also i need to bend the pistol unconftable to the side because i was forced to hold the pistol on the grip. it would be better when i hold the pistol on the barrel and not on the grip.


what i like most on your VR control:

turning feels good
walking speed is good
mixed freewalk and teleport
how the coconut is working (ripping the shell apart)
option to toggle sprint.
smashing the rock to the lock to open the chest.

the coconut example:
i think your coconut interaction was a new fresh air in VR. i hope all interaction will work like it. it was not perfect because to much grvitiy and to little audio feedback. but the general rule here is awesome. i dont know if you designed the coconut like that by accident or if you created a rule. but your coconut should be a rule and it would be the selling point.

the rule could be a 3 step rule that apply to all complex interaction. like opening a present on birthday. you pick it up, you open it, and your happy about stuff inside. every step should have a rewarding sound especially at the end of the process. and most importatn. make it consistent. when all gameplay work on a rule, you dont have to explain everything to the player. the player will automatically tryout the "cocunot" example. if it work on everything, the player is happy. beyond that there should be gameplay elements that work like a puzzle. but separeted from everything else so the player dont mix them.

0. open coconut
1. pick up
2. combined interaction
3. success/reward

0.pistol
1. pickup
2. combined interaction
3. success/reward

0. chest
1. (pickup)
2. combined interaction
3. success/reward

0. making fire
1. pickup
2. combined interaction
3. success/reward

the point of a rule in games (imo) is:
- things only need to be "believeable" not realistic
- things shoulb be "fun" (fun is relative)

that means:
give the player the ability to jump
the player dont die from falling from hight

the player can run
the player dont need to rest

the player can climb things
the player can climb things no humand would do in real

the player can store items
the player can story 5 tons of stuff

the player can hide from enemies
the player is still hidden when the player is in front of you

applied to the coconut example: (you did it very well)

0. coconut - goal = drink and eat
1. pick up coconut - without bending to the ground (optional)
2. break and peel the coconut - with only 1 hand without droping it and using only slight force
3. as a reward the player can drink and eat it.



my personal VR playstyle is this: (oculus/meta quest)
sitting
right hand (main hand)
left stick walking
right stick snap turn 45-60
running / toggle
crouching / toggle
walk direction / normaly headoriented
effects like headbobbing / off
no vignette when walking
movement speed / slow to medium
i love when i can teleport and freewalk / usually stick forward.
picking up things from the enviroment / please dont make me move my body


what i absolutly hate in VR:

no snap turn option available
forced to pick up things physically
forced to use ladders and climbing physically
when the grabbing points like backpack dont work, holster, ammo , dont work.
heavy gravity simulation on objects like in walking dead: saints and sinners.
overloaded controls. does every game need jumping or crawling? no.
overloaded button config: sometimes games use double layouts and you have to press X+Left trigger or something like that.
i actually hate the backpack many games use...
the back pack in some VR games


look. i dont think it will help much when i give you my personal reference. i think i am a typical lazy player or casual player. usually player stick to there personal reference like playing games on pc or console and split in 2 communities. if you know your community or your goal ordiance, you know what your controls should look like. or just steal it from a big popular game like half life alyx. i would do that. they have the money for playtesting. even if people dont like half life alyx, valve still created the perfect VR controls for there ordiance they want to hook.

i think the following games have the best VR controls that i would implement myself if i was a developer:

good controls in VR (i enjoy most) have a basic working setting like the developer want it to be and give me some optional settings i can fine tune. (like left or right handed settings)

half life 2 mod - best customizeable settings, 2 handed weapons
half life alyx - best feeling holding and pickup items, best audio feedback when holding items, best working pickup/teleport
Propagation: Paradise Hotel - best VR "backpack", inventory system, great tools using

the short answer about controls is : if i dont feel like iam using controls, its the best. if it just work wihtout thinking, if i dont have to mind buttons and everything, then the controls are right.

[Bootstrap Island]

Thank you for the details! I am glad to say that a bunch of the mentioned shortcomings are currently being worked on.
To comment on why the teleportation takes such a long time - we don't want the teleportation to be an advantage over regular locomotion so the teleportation speed is the same as the running speed.
The pistol is grabbable from the barrel. Loading it with powder and bullets should produce audible feedback. It is strange that it wasn't there.
Thanks again for this very elaborate overview! Your English is great, by the way.

[JediPunk]

Originally posted by bootstrapislan♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ing:

Thank you for the details! I am glad to say that a bunch of the mentioned shortcomings are currently being worked on.
To comment on why the teleportation takes such a long time - we don't want the teleportation to be an advantage over regular locomotion so the teleportation speed is the same as the running speed.
The pistol is grabbable from the barrel. Loading it with powder and bullets should produce audible feedback. It is strange that it wasn't there.
Thanks again for this very elaborate overview! Your English is great, by the way.

thank you for making me part of your game development process for a moment. i think i dont deserve the attention because iam still just a nobody with just a opinion nobody should care about. i took your invitation instead of deleting everything like i usually do. if you as a developer would listen to all of us like you listen to me, then no game will be developed. thats why i regeret discussing ideas outside the group. all are experts, all know it better, none has a clue about "producing" a game. just like me. iam sorry i might have hurt someone with my rough language. usually i delete messages like that because i become aware of it afterwards. i dont want to be one of those people who critique developers for what they do. i want to apreciate what they do no matter if its tripple A or just a guy wanting to make game... i was courious about what happen when i accept this conversation. at first i thought you want just want to make a fool out of me because aim celarly a dumb person. maybe its still the case and iam just to dumb to see it. anyway. iam still not sure about this. i wish i had the education for real constructive critique someone can actually work with. its sad how much i apreciate this.. it says so much about me. thats even sader.. i think your game gonna be a success!! i want it to be a success. iam not able to create a game like yours even that iam trying to think about it even since years. you gonna make it happen!!

[R3dF0x [Qc]]

Beautiful things in perspective!

I haven't seen anyone talk about it, but will the game include riddles and/or puzzles?

[Bootstrap Island]

Originally posted by R3dF0x Qc:

Beautiful things in perspective!

I haven't seen anyone talk about it, but will the game include riddles and/or puzzles?

Hey! While every interaction in the game could be considered sort of a mini-puzzle, no we will not be designing riddles/puzzles.

[R3dF0x [Qc]]

Ok thanks for your answer. Otherwise, finding a treasure map in the wreckage of a beached ship and going in search of this loot is a puzzle. I imagine you've already thought about that? Anyway, I can't wait to discover this world.

[HoopTheLoop]

God what a terrible post, the controls are fine and into the radius is not over complicated.

Also, shot in the dark that you're using index controllers. It's always the index users complaining about controls

[Rune]

Originally posted by HoopTheLoop:

God what a terrible post, the controls are fine and into the radius is not over complicated.

Also, shot in the dark that you're using index controllers. It's always the index users complaining about controls

Index controllers work perfectly with the game - devs even support finger tracking. I'd be much more worried about controls if I hadn't got the awesome Index controllers. 2c.