Darkest Dungeon® II

Darkest Dungeon® II

View Stats:
Neveri Dec 19, 2023 @ 6:48am
Is the Runaway still useless?
Haven't played the game since launch, but put around 200 hours in it and the Runaway always felt terrible, have they buffed that character at all or is it still awful?
< >
Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Guzu Dec 19, 2023 @ 8:11am 
Arsonist is capable to deal ridiculous amounts of damage if you can get some trinkets from the Sprawl for her. Orphan is closely behind but Survivor is complete meme.

Overall, she's fine but she needs some help to get rolling.
kotamine Dec 19, 2023 @ 8:31am 
I wouldn't say she's useless, but she's still very underwhelming.
A lot of her skills (especially Hearthlight, Ransack, and Backdraft) are straight up bad, and even her good moves like Firefly and Smokescreen are easily countered by high burn resist and high debuff resist enemies respectively. I really hope she gets some buffs like what Occultist got.
BuggeX Dec 19, 2023 @ 8:58am 
I honestly use her with survivor in my current party setup as a support. Ransack is important there as i need to get other champs back, smokescreen to get combo tokens up with, later the play i usually change to arsonist if trinkets allow, but the 2 dodge tokens are fine early.

virt jester, anta duelist, banner crusader and the survivor.

just 1 boss missing for the grandslam and thats the second one
BuggeX Dec 19, 2023 @ 10:22am 
well nvm.... the shambler got me
Loyal Cygnaran Dec 19, 2023 @ 11:48am 
No, she's really good
Rat Bastard Dec 19, 2023 @ 12:03pm 
She got a buff on the beta branch:
Ransack target ranks changed from 1 2 3 to 2 3 4
Ransack+ target ranks changed from 1 2 3 to 2 3 4
Run and Hide now grants 3 regen
Run and Hide is now considered a healing skill
Run and Hide+ now clears all Bleed/Blight/Burn on use
Hearthlight now ignores Dodge
Hearthlight now removes a single Dodge token from all targets, similar to other Ignore type skills
Hearthlight+ now ignores Dodge
Hearthlight+ now removes a single Dodge token from all targets, similar to other Ignore type skills
Hearthlight+ now has a 25% chance of applying Combo to each target
Neveri Dec 19, 2023 @ 12:42pm 
Originally posted by Loyal Cygnaran:
No, she's really good

Do tell, I'd love to hear about a comp/strategy she's viable in without relying on complete RNG in the form of necessary trinkets.
Guzu Dec 19, 2023 @ 12:57pm 
Originally posted by Neveri:
Originally posted by Loyal Cygnaran:
No, she's really good

Do tell, I'd love to hear about a comp/strategy she's viable in without relying on complete RNG in the form of necessary trinkets.

Here are some of the strong comps that can kill Librarian in 3 rounds even with Arsonist in team. Ideally you would want to run Sprawl and Foetor only for these comps:

Alchemist - Vanguard - Arsonist - Ravager
Alchemist - Virtuoso - Arsonist - Vanguard
Alchemist - Sharpshot - Arsonist - Vanguard

If you don't want to open with Dragonfly switch her to rank 3.
Last edited by Guzu; Dec 19, 2023 @ 12:58pm
LordMondayIX Dec 19, 2023 @ 1:29pm 
Runaway is my favorite DoT damage dealer, primarily because she has such strong synergy with my favorite frontline damage Leper. I'm also a fan of the Survivor path, though it does require specific synergies to be useful.

The most obvious synergy is turn 1 Jester Finale; that speed boost to guarantee you go first can allow you to smokescreen a high value target for both a combo token and potential vulnerability token, and then you can just drop a pike on them which has strong potential to take the majority of size 2 enemies and immediately put them on death's door.

Other good synergies are of course with any character on your team that can induce bleeding on themselves or allies, such as Ravager Hellion, Leper with Ruin, Occultist with Wyrd Reconstruction, or Intermezzo Jester.

She can also still output strong damage despite the -20% burn res piercing by simply off-loading that burn damage potential onto an ally via Firestarter, and as well Controlled Burn ignores her own modifiers to deal good damage to enemies that move multiple times a turn, or when you can shuffle the enemies around to make multiple of them start their turn on the burning spot.

TL;DR I think Runaway is fun and you can do funny stuff with her.
Last edited by LordMondayIX; Dec 19, 2023 @ 1:30pm
RopeDrink Dec 19, 2023 @ 1:49pm 
Runaway has never been 'useless'.

A lot of her skills (especially Hearthlight, Ransack, and Backdraft) are straight up bad

Ransack is Shieldbreaker's "Puncture", minus one target. It can be used from every single position and hits 3/4 - which is strong in and of itself.

Now that CRU has entered the mixture, a Puncture/Lance combo can keep RUN/CRU in position while applying combo tokens so that the Puncture spreads flames to other targets - all while mechanically displacing opponents.

Hearthlight is one of the few full-party attacks that remove party blinds and enemy stealth, ignores dodge, and has a chance to apply up to 4 combo tokens -- all while proccing trinkets which apply on-hit effects. It's not the best button in the universe, but it's far from useless.

I don't bother with Backdraft - much like I rarely bother with Cause of Death on Plague Doctor. The concept of eating DoTs to deal raw damage isn't always practical, but Backdraft is still a reliable method for a Firefly-lobbing Arsonist to slap the front ranks without displacing herself with Ransack.

even her good moves like Firefly and Smokescreen are easily countered by high burn resist and high debuff resist enemies respectively.

CRU/RUN have their own resistance concerns, just like PD/GR/FLA (blight-res) or HWM/HEL/JES (bleed-res). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there are far fewer flame-resistant enemies compared to bleed/blight-resistant.

-----

Having said all that, she is a highly mobile and self-sustainable flex between back-rank projection, support (buff/debuff/combo), and front-rank bruiser -- unsurprisingly capable of extremely damaging DoT builds, which are typically superior to raw damage builds by default.

Given how bleeds are extremely common, she is a solid source of additional healing, keeping herself topped up with regenerative stealths, making her (and GR) no-brain picks for bosses like the Fault, or flat-out ignore upcoming combo mechanics while still performing damage.

My most used comp before the Binding Blade DLC was GR-RUN-FLA-MAA -- which equates to 3x self-healers, 2x taunt-tanks, 2x soothers, 1x self-soother, 3.5 sources of projection, and good up-front damage. Heroes like RUN make it easy for heroes like MAA to self-heal 24/7 with Crush and/or Cauterize DoTs in between smashing the back-rank, all while staying healthy and safe with the GR - two back-rank killers who need very little assistance.

When it comes to the Librarian - RUN, like many other heroes, can be relegated to book duty. Alternatively - blind/combo while removing the Librarian's dodge tokens.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3081668533

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3081668532
Last edited by RopeDrink; Dec 19, 2023 @ 2:04pm
Xgpmcnp Dec 19, 2023 @ 1:53pm 
Cauterize is one of the best healing skills on a non-healer hero in the game, imo. Bleed is incredibly abundant and you will get to use it very often. The heal is very good and the bleed removal is great; It has saved me from death against Chirurgeon many many times. Cauterize also has no requirement on HP threshold which is rare and valuable.
kotamine Dec 19, 2023 @ 3:44pm 
Originally posted by Shalai:
Alchemist - Vanguard - Arsonist - Ravager
Alchemist - Virtuoso - Arsonist - Vanguard
Alchemist - Sharpshot - Arsonist - Vanguard
Any party with Alchemist PD can crush the game, especially if you also have Vanguard MAA. You're not really making a good case for the Runaway here.

Originally posted by RopeDrink:
Ransack is Shieldbreaker's "Puncture", minus one target. It can be used from every single position and hits 3/4 - which is strong in and of itself.

Now that CRU has entered the mixture, a Puncture/Lance combo can keep RUN/CRU in position while applying combo tokens so that the Puncture spreads flames to other targets - all while mechanically displacing opponents.

Hearthlight is one of the few full-party attacks that remove party blinds and enemy stealth, ignores dodge, and has a chance to apply up to 4 combo tokens -- all while proccing trinkets which apply on-hit effects. It's not the best button in the universe, but it's far from useless.

I don't bother with Backdraft - much like I rarely bother with Cause of Death on Plague Doctor. The concept of eating DoTs to deal raw damage isn't always practical, but Backdraft is still a reliable method for a Firefly-lobbing Arsonist to slap the front ranks without displacing herself with Ransack.

even her good moves like Firefly and Smokescreen are easily countered by high burn resist and high debuff resist enemies respectively.

CRU/RUN have their own resistance concerns, just like PD/GR/FLA (blight-res) or HWM/HEL/JES (bleed-res). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there are far fewer flame-resistant enemies compared to bleed/blight-resistant.
I was not taking the recent buffs into account, since I haven't seen them until now. They're much appreciated, since it's very hard to make a case for Ransack that doesn't hit rank 4 or Hearthlight that doesn't ignore/remove dodge tokens.
Also, my point wasn't that there aren't blight/bleed resistant enemies, it's that characters like HWM/GR/FLA/HWM/HEL/JES aren't one trick ponies relying solely on their DoTs and debuffs. If an enemy is resistant to bleed, you can just Wicked Slice instead of Open Vein. Meanwhile there's very little that the Runaway can do against an enemy that's resistant to burn and debuffs, since her raw damage output is very poor.
Last edited by kotamine; Dec 19, 2023 @ 3:45pm
RopeDrink Dec 19, 2023 @ 4:27pm 
I was not taking the recent buffs into account, since I haven't seen them until now. They're much appreciated, since it's very hard to make a case for Ransack that doesn't hit rank 4 or Hearthlight that doesn't ignore/remove dodge tokens.

Ransack was useful even before the buffs - giving her access to R1/R2 whenever Firefly was undesired or unavailable, eg. mopping up R1/R2 after dunking the back ranks with firebombs. It was less valuable against R4 because, if playing from the back, you already had direct access to R4 by default.

Naturally, it also allows forward or backwards (dance) synergies via Ran/Run, helping your team get back into position after moves, shuffles or ambushes (while giving the enemy team the exact same problem) -- and now, the addition of CRU + generic buffs has made it better.

Being usable from any position is a strength unto itself, and it is worth considering regardless of path - given none have anti-melee, merely raw damage or burn-applying mod changes.

Hearthlight that doesn't ignore/remove dodge tokens.

Again, skills like this applied on-hit effects, and very few of them hit the entire party simultaneously (eg. Magnesium Rain - which doesn't need trinkets to apply damage, but still, doesn't reveal enemies and could also be dodged). Naturally, one was/is more practical than the other, and I'm not saying Hearthlight was/is great, merely that it was not useless.

Think of it like Flare on ARB/MUS in DD1. Being the best anti-stealth in the game isn't exactly the best praise in the universe, but being less common in practice doesn't mean it's bad - especially when it can be turned into a combo-sprinkling AoE damage button.

Also, my point wasn't that there aren't blight/bleed resistant enemies, it's that characters like HWM/GR/FLA/HWM/HEL/JES aren't one trick ponies relying solely on their DoTs and debuffs.

Neither is RUN.

You can play an up-front flame-ignoring Orphaned support bruiser if you prefer, giving her the ability to flit between DoT or Raw simply by changing positions - with no detriment to her debuff/support skills - or have her flex per situation. Alternatively, Survivor for a more rounded and supportive experience that doesn't hinge on applying flames.

It is no different to calling Alchemist PD a one-trick pony for sitting in R4/R3 and spamming grenades 24/7 until a spare heal is required. Sure, you can do the same as a Wanderer so that Incision isn't neutered, but that's not very likely (or practical).

Berserker, Soloist, Yellowhand (etc) lean just as much into DoT synergies. You don't 'have' to press the DoT buttons or push for the anti-bleed RES, but you'd be silly not to when playing those paths - giving up on 33% res-piercing, 10% crit, res-strip, or whatever other effects those paths/skills gain.

In all cases, every DoT-applying item/button and path have resistances and scenarios to consider. RUN is no different - with DoTs merely being her strength, not her sole usage. If anything, her options are much more rounded.

For example - even as an Arsonist in the above videos - aside from taking Controlled Burn for the first round of the Dreaming General, Firefly was/is typically my only flame-applying button for general RUN play (outside of landing Ransack combos).

She's there because she's flexible, can hit practically every position, can lean into DoTs when favourable, stealth/heal herself, apply blind/combo, bypass tokens, remove DoTs (etc) - all of which help the team get the job done. The fact she can ramp up disgusting amounts of DoTs is just icing on the cake, with or without being in the Sprawl.
Last edited by RopeDrink; Dec 19, 2023 @ 4:48pm
Loyal Cygnaran Dec 19, 2023 @ 7:13pm 
Originally posted by Neveri:
Originally posted by Loyal Cygnaran:
No, she's really good

Do tell, I'd love to hear about a comp/strategy she's viable in without relying on complete RNG in the form of necessary trinkets.
Many people have made suggestions but rank 4 orphan tossing firebombs exists, putting her up front ransack is a beast now. Pull on backline is sooooooo good. Can hit librarian, tap root, act 2, act 5, drummers. This is an OMNI LAUNCH RANK move. Insanity. Dragonfly is amazing combo and burn, smokescreen is her best move hands down setting up for 100+ dmg burning stars or chops and now with crusader 50+ dmg smites. Cauterize is better than it seems because most enemies do bleed. Run and hide is very very strong defensive stay alive ability. Even hearthlight now is the queen of on hit trinkets. Any of them. The peak being eyes that apply all the dots but even something as simple as blind on hit. And it can drop combos too. Her smelliest move is firestarter and even then it has a couple use cases like with crusader.

Try out this team the burning stars:
alchemist, warlock, arsonist, aggressor. It's fun and you'll do great. For ra I suggest dragonfly, ransack, smokescreen as musts but the others are up to you
Guzu Dec 20, 2023 @ 1:21am 
Originally posted by kotamine:
Any party with Alchemist PD can crush the game, especially if you also have Vanguard MAA. You're not really making a good case for the Runaway here.

I'm not making a case for anyone. Dude asked for good comps where she is viable and I shared.

Originally posted by kotamine:
Also, my point wasn't that there aren't blight/bleed resistant enemies, it's that characters like HWM/GR/FLA/HWM/HEL/JES aren't one trick ponies relying solely on their DoTs and debuffs. If an enemy is resistant to bleed, you can just Wicked Slice instead of Open Vein. Meanwhile there's very little that the Runaway can do against an enemy that's resistant to burn and debuffs, since her raw damage output is very poor.

That's why I said to run Arsonist. There are only 3 enemy types (excluding boss) in the Sprawl who will have a 42% to resist. Everything else is almost a 100% to land even in Sprawl. I run 3 burn skills (no Ransack because Arsonist has better moves), Cauterize + Smokescreen and I never have issues with her damage.
Last edited by Guzu; Dec 20, 2023 @ 2:51am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Dec 19, 2023 @ 6:48am
Posts: 25