395 million to get LOTR rights, to get the rights to do a TW LOTR would involve a huge expense just to get permission.

[HB]

https://variety.com/2023/film/global/embracer-group-paid-395-million-for-lord-of-the-rings-rights-1235650495/

Imagine the unit price of a LOTR TW when historical TW cost what it does without that exta costing.

[Defmonkey]

Right but there has been a number of LotR games over the years..... i'm pretty sure none of them will have paid this amount.

[breadman]

did daedalic pay that much for gollum? doubt

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by breadman:

did daedalic pay that much for gollum? doubt

Yeah, i believe there are 2-3 other LotR games currently in production soon to be released also.

[HB]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Right but there has been a number of LotR games over the years..... i'm pretty sure none of them will have paid this amount.

So what?, has nothing to do with what you have to currently pay.

Its not clear you understand how licencing works, 395 million got the company the rights for specified time for LOTR, the prior owner they acquired the rights from, had awarded around 10 video game licenses for games to recoup whatever they payed the Tolkien estate to get the ownership rights.

Others who want to do a LOTR game then pay a % of that to do so, the owner of the rights decides how much of the 395 to re coup per interested party, that extra cost gets passed on to the customer.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by HB:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Right but there has been a number of LotR games over the years..... i'm pretty sure none of them will have paid this amount.

So what?, has nothing to do with what you have to currently pay.

Its not clear you understand how licencing works, 395 million got the company the rights for specified time for LOTR. Others who want to do a LOTR game then pay a % of that to do so, the owner of the rights decides how much of the 395 to re coup per interested party, that extra cost gets passed on to the customer.

Now now, no need to be condescending.

This is Middle Earth Enterprises which licenses film and merchandising for the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. It didn't originally cover digital rights such as computer games, with Tolikien's estate suing but ultimately getting settled not all that long ago.

So yes, Embracer, the group that now owns this enterprise have the exclusive rights to run the monopoly for any adaptations of this material and there would need to be a fee for this license, its the same with Games Workshop, who had license for tabletop games and miniatures for the same.

Embracer will want to profit on their license sure, but because they spent 395 million for the rights for the foreseeable future does not mean that every license partner will be priced out at such huge expense that it can't work. Really just comes down to the negotiations between the two parties at the end of the day.

Also, its not impossible to gain rights by other means.... from the Tolkien estate themselves, this has already happened in the past with Vivendi Games the Lord of the rings: War of the Ring.... really depends on the material and the aspects being adapted.

[HB]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Now now, no need to be condescending.

No need to repeat back what i just explained either, but here we are.

Vivendi owns Sierra who are gone, who had a licence to produce LOTR, and was able to publish because Sierra at the time had the rights to do so, so no, Vivendi did not deal with Tolkien Estate, it owned those who already had done so.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by HB:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Now now, no need to be condescending.

No need to repeat back what i just explained either, but here we are.

Vivendi owns Sierra who are gone, who had a licence to produce LOTR, and was able to publish because Sierra at the time had the rights to do so, so no, Vivendi did not deal with Tolkien Estate, it owned those who already had done so.

Actually, i have just troubled myself with looking it up, so i guess a correction is in order from my original comment, seems that the Sierra / Vivendi connection is still licensed with Middle Earth Enterprises / Embracer but directly linked to the books. I got this confused it seems with the EA games that got licensed specifically with the movies at around the same time.

Not sure with who got the license specifically, it states Vivendi but that might just be because it ultimately became so when Sierra dissolved as you say. Not that it matters. Either way there are still routes to the Tolkien estate i'm sure.

[HB]

Nope, thats not how licences work, its cleared up if you know how they work, moving on.

[Defmonkey]

Sorry, what?

[Cabbage]

Gone from being a historian to a corporate lawyer eh chap?

[RTF Legion]

Originally posted by 𒂍𒀀𒈾𒍢𒅕:

Gone from being a historian to a corporate lawyer eh chap?

I’m still waiting on cheddar man information.

[HB]

Originally posted by cyllan2:

The Tolkien estate....Another bunch of greedy F.

Tolkien Estate sold the rights back in 1976 to Saul Zaentz Company, its they who sold it to Embracer, hard to see the connection your making.

Originally posted by cyllan2:

Not that they care anything about quality control, See the latest Amazon series...rings of Power

Tolkien Estate had the right to stop Amazon at any time when they sold SA rights to Amazon, Amazon dismissed Shippley during production when he voiced objections to writers replacing Lore. Before then he explains this:

https://www.tolkiengesellschaft.de/30918/exklusive-interview-with-tom-shippey-concerning-lotronprime/


So does Amazon have a free hand in the interpretation?
Amazon has a relatively free hand when it comes to adding something, since, as I said, very few details are known about this time span. The Tolkien Estate will insist that the main shape of the Second Age is not altered. Sauron invades Eriador, is forced back by a Númenorean expedition, is returns to Númenor. There he corrupts the Númenoreans and seduces them to break the ban of the Valar. All this, the course of history, must remain the same. But you can add new characters and ask a lot of questions, like: What has Sauron done in the meantime? Where was he after Morgoth was defeated? Theoretically, Amazon can answer these questions by inventing the answers, since Tolkien did not describe it. But it must not contradict anything which Tolkien did say. That’s what Amazon has to watch out for. It must be canonical, it is impossible to change the boundaries which Tolkien has created, it is necessary to remain “tolkienian”.
Tom Shippey - Tobias M. Eckrich
Does the Tokien Estate have a veto on changes?
Yes, the Tolkien Estate keeps a very careful eye on everything and is quite capable of saying no. They retain a veto over everything that concerns Tolkien.

Originally posted by cyllan2:

It was so bad they deleted tens of thousands of reviews ...maybe hundreds of thousands , in amazon USA.

Oh i agree, an appalling show, give 2 woke writers with little industry experience a bag of money, and just expect it to work out well, was not the way to go, and Prime were just wrong to do so with reviews.

On the plus side, CEO of WB a few days ago flew out to see PG to discuss future LOTR films. https://sffgazette.com/fantasy/the-lord-of-the-rings/lord-of-the-rings-warner-bros-execs-confirm-meetings-with-peter-jackson-to-discuss-franchises-future-a5461

[Yews]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/325610/Total_War_ATTILA/

[Cabbage]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1035990/Dialtown_Phone_Dating_Sim/