Removing Stops : what do you think ?

[Gaddy Games]

What if :
- I remove the "Stop" items
- In the bulid menu, you get a "truck" items.
- You select them and click one time for the start point, one other time for the end point (like when you build a road, with the same yellow arrows as now). You can select on any road (as there is no stop anymore) for both start and end.
- Once created, the start & end will look like a stop, will not be usable for other lines start/end (so just like now) but would still actually be plain roads
- If you select the line (just like now), you'll get the same UI box as now, with the Reverse button, the start & end panel etc.

(and same for trains)

[MessyBoots]

I'm on the beta branch atm, I think it works as is. I'm adding a screenshot (a messy one sorry) from my game a couple of days ago but loaded the file today to take the shot, to show how I've done some of my roads. So you can see on the left I've selected the sulfur stop for the yellow arrows and to bring the interface up, and just moused over the bus stop on the right side for the green arrows. The stops you can't see are by my city a distance away, but for the longest part of the journey, the trucks from both stops just converge and use 1 road. It really is working well at this point.

Initially I was using a separate road for each route and it was getting messy. I worry that you'll end up getting bogged down with trying to please all of us over something that is working well anyway. There is still plenty of time once it comes out into early access for tweaks. I think you're doing an amazing job, and already have an enjoyable demo.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2928156099

[Gaddy Games]

Just to be clear : with the change i suggest your screenshot would look like exactly the same (but for the "road stop" in the selection panel replaced by "road").
The change idea is on the way to create a road, to simplify it

[MessyBoots]

Ah, I'm with you now. Thank you. How about calling the stops Truck Stops?

[Coolsil]

I like that idea, does that apply to trains as well?

I think an issue later game is trucks become obsolete, maybe allowing trucks to have multiple routes using the same start/end points could make them useful even once you have trains

[Gaddy Games]

yes yes same for trains of course

[MessyBoots]

Just thinking here, and of course I only have knowledge of the demo, so further content is alien to me other than what I see on the store page and discussion forum (Apologies if there's more on Discord, I can't use it) but, what about calling Depots Storage Yards, or some version of Storage, and the 'Stops' Depots? Just came to mind when reading what Coolsil said about them becoming obsolete later game. I don't know how much extra work that would cause you though.

Language is so annoying, especially English as we use so many words for the same thing. As an English person it frustrates even us sometimes lol.

[Gaddy Games]

depot has a meaning of storing something, no ? The stops in the game do not store anything. Also here the idea is the get rid of them ^^

[MessyBoots]

The Depot naming is part of that annoying language thing I mentioned. So for example here we have bus depots, also called bus stations, Interchangeable. You are right though, and I'm letting my thoughts get away with me.

I like your idea though. Still simple, easy to work with.

I shall leave it for now as others will come along with far better ideas than me, there's been some great exchanges of ideas for many things already in the forum and you've had great patience. Thank you for continuing to engage. Less than 2 weeks to go!

[IchigoMait]

Originally posted by MessyBoots:

The Depot naming is part of that annoying language thing I mentioned. So for example here we have bus depots, also called bus stations, Interchangeable. You are right though, and I'm letting my thoughts get away with me.

I like your idea though. Still simple, easy to work with.

I shall leave it for now as others will come along with far better ideas than me, there's been some great exchanges of ideas for many things already in the forum and you've had great patience. Thank you for continuing to engage. Less than 2 weeks to go!

Guess yeah bus depots or whatever they are called are for the city line busses, where they're stationed, where the passengers never get.
As passenger you only have bus stops, from where the bus passes by and drops off or picks up. And you have end of lines, which are bus stops too, where the bus driver can take their brakes, or when the driver is switched (though can happens in any bus stop) or the bus stops altogether and goes back to the bus station.

Though then you have bus stations for the country line, which are basically bus stops, but called bus stations, but just go all over the country or outside the country.

[Gaddy Games]

yep, i could have named them "stations" instead of stop, that i understand

[Gaddy Games]

but with the suggested change, the "stop" name will appear much less often. It will be just name the "line start" and "line end" maybe, or "line origin" and "line destination" like now for the line

[Coolsil]

doing it that way I recommend using wording of "supply line" or "route"

[Corence]

Yeah, I think having an "Add route" button next to roads (not tied to trucks) would be perfect. Then trucks would be added like they are now on an established route. This seems like a nice idea to remove the need to create explicit stops while building!

[physixtential]

Hi, followed your link from my previous post. Awesome to see you working on this. I have two ideas. Depots could serves as stops directly, or when you lay a stop, it is a 3 step process. You click the start location, then the end location and it builds your stops and road, and pops up what you want to haul. I also think there needs to be some easy way to quickly understand what is connected to what and what it is hauling. Right now you have to click on every stop to inspect it, or zoom in and figure out what is sitting there if anything at all. You also mentioned leaving the UI as is. I think the start and stop configuration UI is tedious and confusing and doesn't seem to work the way I expect. I'm sure I would get used to it, but that shouldn't be a struggle.

TBH I did not spend enough time with the game to have more ideas. I just feel strongly that the entire transport system should be less tedious and restrictive. The first impression of the strengths of this game is the feeling of rapidly multiplying your production scale. Having to stop and futz with the current road system detracts from that. That said, I can imagine the road system being fun, but it would have to get pretty intelligent and polished. Roads are a hard problem maybe just not worth imposing.

[Gaddy Games]

"it is a 3 step process. You click the start location, then the end location and it builds your stops and road, and pops up what you want to haul."
That's close to the idea i suggest, but without a "stop" item, and you stiill need to first build the road. You would do that from a "trucks" item (or "truck line") in the left buliding bar, not from selecting a road or a stop.

I do think it's still better to separate the "roads on the ground" with the "truck lines", as several lines will share the same roads (same for trains), and also to avoid confusion.
You first build the physical roads, and when you are happy with your path, you then add the trucks lines, it seems simpler to me than to do everything at the same time.

You can already see with the stop design, if they are used or not, and if so for loading or unload.
But to see everything is not that easy as it can quickly become very confusing.
Some have suggested to draw overlay lines (maybe like when Alt is pressed or something) of the color of the item.
There are a lot of possibilites, and the idea is to take the time to improve it, step by step.