Are ACs too strong? [lorewise]

[zayaid]

I mean 621 just beat everything in his path with AC

[hakabata]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by hakabata:

I prefer to think MTs just got him which makes it even more hilarious. But who knows. Maybe some expanded story is awaiting for the original owner.

Looks more to me like the helicopter took him down. I mean we do find his (wrecked) AC at the same place where it shows up.

We joke about it after having beaten the game, but that thing gave people some serious grief on day 1.

Well, I just love to think it that way. Maybe a banana peel took it down. Perhaps ALLMIND herself ambushed it. We don't know what has been under the surface so I think it's quite open to twists as many as we want.

Some serious grief aye... Maybe we can call it a happy accident. I saw some waifu-ized pictures of that PCA chopper. Gave me some good laugh.

[Kain]

Originally posted by hakabata:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

I died more to that tutorial boss than any other boss in the game, including ibis.

I think it did the excellent job, helped many players to decide refunds in given time. True example of what great steam game should be.

But seriously, that must be the reality of which many pilot candidates had to face. Holding a Nightfall figurine, swollen dream of mech power boy fantasy, only to realize they can't pass a test.

Or you're a rookie full of dreams of getting their own call sign when a crazy merc with brain damage gets rid of you.

[hakabata]

Well, that's serious. Young pilots go mia in their first flights... He didn't have a chance.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by hakabata:

I think it did the excellent job, helped many players to decide refunds in given time. True example of what great steam game should be.

But seriously, that must be the reality of which many pilot candidates had to face. Holding a Nightfall figurine, swollen dream of mech power boy fantasy, only to realize they can't pass a test.

Or you're a rookie full of dreams of getting their own call sign when a crazy merc with brain damage gets rid of you.

Or you're just chillin in your crib when some crazy merc starts blasting the place, and all you have to fight him with is a large sawblade.

[nul]

ACs are strong but rarely used. There's not too many AC pilots, especially because the strain of using one makes being augmented almost a requirement. (Freud is just insane)
They're expensive to hire.

I imagine while 621 is doing their thing on their missions, there's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of MT action happening elsewhere. Sending an AC is for those "We really need them dead" moments.

[Sabaithal]

Also most ACs probably have issues dealing with stuff like Tetrapods if they aren't specifically geared for dealing with them. G5 is the perfect example, if he 1v1s that tetrapod... well he will win, but its gonna take him a while and he'll be badly banged up.

G4 on the other hand is geared with high explosive from the start, so he deals with it fine (only to die later because they sent him, a tank with ♥♥♥♥ verticality, on a mission that involved climbing a gigantic wall).

[Killer Beast 77]

Originally posted by zayaid:

I mean 621 just beat everything in his path with AC

no not realy by lore wise ac is around mid tier for exemple most chrachters in the game think that this is the ranking of mechs types :
1.MT the ussaly grunt one hit kill slow and clunky low dmg
2.Sg something that is only momentarily introduce as part of the planetary defense force version of better MT units they almost close to a AC
3.toy box MT considered powerful situational since he is great for ambush has higher defense then normal MTs and way much more burst firepower and increase mobility
4.heavy MT considered a powerhouse of the MT class since they have way much more deference and firepower then any MT know but comes at the cost of mobility
5.AC in know this will sound a little interesting since i placed it mid-tier but that who it is considered in the game by most characters interactions however AC are still unique into the game since they ussaly are piloted by highly skilled pilots and have high customization even compared whit the next tier mech that is why they can overpower most difficultys and is often associated whit who good the pilot it is not what is he using so you will see some considered weak while others are god tier pilots i think that is why he get to play as only ac pilots and not change to other models
6. LC the highly mobile faster much more powerful variant of AC i you gonna see Walter mentions a few times about LC begin superior to ACs but most off the time he will warn you about the fact that you are to face LC and to be careful since they much more mobility or " improved mobility that they have" as Walter says yeah they are mobile but not superior in firepower to an AC.
7.HC considered the almost the strongest mech whit pilot in the game you only gonna fight like 3 HC in the entire game but they are really strong they have high defense high mobility high firepower they have high customization and access to some weapons and parts that are only for HCs ( there are some only LC parts as well ) even Walter is gonna mention that you gonna face a testing unit not a finished one of the HC and to be on your guard since the planetary Defense Force has made recently a very powerful mech and you are to stop it before the research is finished it gets shipped to the battlefield. i guess the final version should be a bit stronger since you will hear the line you need time to power the HC it is not ready idk if means ready for combat or the research is done but given what Walter said i guess we can assume it supost to be stronger
8.this one those not have a name but if i have to give it one it will be Gundam the most powerful mech piloted by Rusty whit parts completely made by elcano whit research by Schneider is showed at one of the endings sadly you need to fight him ... you get the parts for the AC but some reason i still believe this is a new mech not other improved ACs parts since Rusty has near infinite flight and improved high air mobility which even whit the full set you can't achieve his mobility in the air not even whit infinite flight "you also get infinite flight by the game since i think there is no other way to keep up to him in the air and it also makes the fight much more legendary amazing"

i didn't include drones bosses and coral machinery since they don't have a pilot or cant be considered a proper gundam style Mech
btw freud ballatues , ayres and allmind igazzu are also not included since they are a mix they have pilots and ACs but they also have a huge part that is not Ac based and i cannot find a way to rank them lore-wise since there is only a few characters mentions about them but only for a brief moment and idk exactly who much is skill or mech improvements

fell free to tell me if i miss something

[k-ricks]

look at all those old AC opening except AC4 they are NEXT

[JtDarth]

I mean, outside of ammo limitations and raw durability, ACs can theoretically operate indefinitely and it's not like 621 is the only AC pilot in 6 demonstrated to be monstrously capable, lore-wise. Nightfall and Rusty have pretty impressive and 'player-level' lore feats. So does Michigan and Freud, although they don't get given specific examples. Thing is, AC vs AC is a massively different affair than AC vs anything else. Part of the reason the PCA is so feared is because their 'cavalry' mechs, while less versatile, ARE in the same capability weight class as an AC, but the PCA can deploy multiple for every individual AC an opponent might have available.

Nightfall Raven kicked the rears of PCA and Corpo alike at the spaceport, then kicked back to relax until the player showed up to challenge them over the title of 'Raven'. Rusty solos the G1 Michigan mission if you take the other one (which, given what Steel Haze is equipped with, implies he likely did a LOT of work with his laser staff there), as well as taking an entire fleet of warships on headfirst and succeeding in one mission while you are busy fighting elsewhere, and Freud is just a monstrously skilled blood knight. Do keep in mind what his 'introduction' involves him doing.

Lore-wise, if an AC that isn't exceedingly outdated is on the field, without HEAVY artillery (like in the Wall mission) or AC equivalent mechs (The PCA's LC and HC mechs are less versatile than a normal AC and their LC are less durable, but they are near-equivalent in capability and can be deployed in numbers they couldn't even dream of doing with AC, apparently), or something with abnormally high firepower like the non-AC tetras which do have enough firepower to handle a poorly piloted AC, but get smoked against someone with a clue, Or just C-weapons as a whole, then you can't really contest it. Numbers don't do much when the ACs are so much faster and more mobile than MTs and choppers, even when the firepower imbalance is addressed. IIRC the only ACs that AREN'T seen as requiring heavy artillery or another AC to fight, is stuff like the busted down first-gen AC you pilot in the 'escape from Snail's playroom' mission.
Even in the mission where you fight Ibis, at the very beginning, the pair of ACs you fight show no sign of concern until AFTER you interject in the ongoing fight. Then they start showing actual wariness toward a target, instead of it just being a chore.


Even ACs as poorly thought out as Mad stomp and the various low-end RLF ACs are still an absolutely massive, nigh insurmountable threat to normie MTs and VTOLs.



As for Raven in the first mission: Might he have faked his death, the way happens with 621 in playthrough 3? Raven tries to dump the heat from the PCA by faking death, and it fails pretty hard because someone stole the license instead of letting it die.
Alternatively, given the number of ACs that were wrecked and laying around on that mission: The fighting was WAY more intense a few hours ago, and we've arrived in time to disrupt the RLF scavenging crew after the major threats have left the area (aside the PCA chopper).

[Dakota]

Originally posted by killer beast 77:

Originally posted by zayaid:

I mean 621 just beat everything in his path with AC

no not realy by lore wise ac is around mid tier for exemple most chrachters in the game think that this is the ranking of mechs types :
1.MT the ussaly grunt one hit kill slow and clunky low dmg
2.Sg something that is only momentarily introduce as part of the planetary defense force version of better MT units they almost close to a AC
3.toy box MT considered powerful situational since he is great for ambush has higher defense then normal MTs and way much more burst firepower and increase mobility
4.heavy MT considered a powerhouse of the MT class since they have way much more deference and firepower then any MT know but comes at the cost of mobility
5.AC in know this will sound a little interesting since i placed it mid-tier but that who it is considered in the game by most characters interactions however AC are still unique into the game since they ussaly are piloted by highly skilled pilots and have high customization even compared whit the next tier mech that is why they can overpower most difficultys and is often associated whit who good the pilot it is not what is he using so you will see some considered weak while others are god tier pilots i think that is why he get to play as only ac pilots and not change to other models
6. LC the highly mobile faster much more powerful variant of AC i you gonna see Walter mentions a few times about LC begin superior to ACs but most off the time he will warn you about the fact that you are to face LC and to be careful since they much more mobility or " improved mobility that they have" as Walter says yeah they are mobile but not superior in firepower to an AC.
7.HC considered the almost the strongest mech whit pilot in the game you only gonna fight like 3 HC in the entire game but they are really strong they have high defense high mobility high firepower they have high customization and access to some weapons and parts that are only for HCs ( there are some only LC parts as well ) even Walter is gonna mention that you gonna face a testing unit not a finished one of the HC and to be on your guard since the planetary Defense Force has made recently a very powerful mech and you are to stop it before the research is finished it gets shipped to the battlefield. i guess the final version should be a bit stronger since you will hear the line you need time to power the HC it is not ready idk if means ready for combat or the research is done but given what Walter said i guess we can assume it supost to be stronger
8.this one those not have a name but if i have to give it one it will be Gundam the most powerful mech piloted by Rusty whit parts completely made by elcano whit research by Schneider is showed at one of the endings sadly you need to fight him ... you get the parts for the AC but some reason i still believe this is a new mech not other improved ACs parts since Rusty has near infinite flight and improved high air mobility which even whit the full set you can't achieve his mobility in the air not even whit infinite flight "you also get infinite flight by the game since i think there is no other way to keep up to him in the air and it also makes the fight much more legendary amazing"

i didn't include drones bosses and coral machinery since they don't have a pilot or cant be considered a proper gundam style Mech
btw freud ballatues , ayres and allmind igazzu are also not included since they are a mix they have pilots and ACs but they also have a huge part that is not Ac based and i cannot find a way to rank them lore-wise since there is only a few characters mentions about them but only for a brief moment and idk exactly who much is skill or mech improvements

fell free to tell me if i miss something

Rusty's upgraded AC was just an AC, the infinite flight was because of the coral in the air at this altitude. Carla explains it at the start of the mission and you are allowed to fly infinitely during this stage as well because of that.

[Blackmage]

In-lore, 621 is a subject of the Human Plus project. He's super human with super-piloting abilities. So yeah, he is powerful, and yes, too powerful. But AC6 was made for onboarding new players, so FromSoftware didn't want to make the game too hard.

It's one of the things about AC6 that annoys me. I preferred feeling like an underdog who worked their way up the mercenary ranks as was in the classic AC games. Master of Arena did a spectacular job of integrating the arena itself as a part of the story.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

In-lore, 621 is a subject of the Human Plus project. He's super human with super-piloting abilities. So yeah, he is powerful, and yes, too powerful. But AC6 was made for onboarding new players, so FromSoftware didn't want to make the game too hard.

It's one of the things about AC6 that annoys me. I preferred feeling like an underdog who worked their way up the mercenary ranks as was in the classic AC games. Master of Arena did a spectacular job of integrating the arena itself as a part of the story.

The only AC game that is harder than AC6 is Last Raven, where a lot of AC6 elements come from.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

In-lore, 621 is a subject of the Human Plus project. He's super human with super-piloting abilities. So yeah, he is powerful, and yes, too powerful. But AC6 was made for onboarding new players, so FromSoftware didn't want to make the game too hard.

It's one of the things about AC6 that annoys me. I preferred feeling like an underdog who worked their way up the mercenary ranks as was in the classic AC games. Master of Arena did a spectacular job of integrating the arena itself as a part of the story.

Have you actually played through the NG+ storylines for AC6? Because the arena is very much integrated into the main storyline in AC6, at least in NG++.


I really do wish the game was more upfront about the massive changes that occur in NG++.

[Blackmage]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Originally posted by Blackmage:

In-lore, 621 is a subject of the Human Plus project. He's super human with super-piloting abilities. So yeah, he is powerful, and yes, too powerful. But AC6 was made for onboarding new players, so FromSoftware didn't want to make the game too hard.

It's one of the things about AC6 that annoys me. I preferred feeling like an underdog who worked their way up the mercenary ranks as was in the classic AC games. Master of Arena did a spectacular job of integrating the arena itself as a part of the story.

The only AC game that is harder than AC6 is Last Raven, where a lot of AC6 elements come from.

Plz, AC6 is baby AC. Another Age, Silent Line, and Nexus were all more challenging.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

Originally posted by REhorror:

The only AC game that is harder than AC6 is Last Raven, where a lot of AC6 elements come from.

Plz, AC6 is baby AC. Another Age, Silent Line, and Nexus were all more challenging.

Stop please.

A lot of AC difficulty come from the control scheme but most of it is solved by proper preparation.

Last Raven is hard due to the surprise buttrape Pulverizer boss that comes outta nowhere and you have to change your build to take them into account.

AC6 also follows this surprise boss formula.

But I will still say Last Raven is harder because your parts can get destroyed so you have to buy new ones. Or you can reload a save.

An AC6 with debt mechanic and destructible part will be harder than Last Raven.