What is a souls-like to you?

[Deadoon]

With how many peopel calling this a souls like, both honestly and disingenuously, this is something that should be asked.

I view a souls like as an action rpg with a high degree of telegraphing of attacks, a soft-checkpoint system, and the penalty for dying being sent back to that checkpoint while the game continues on with some sort of penalty. Every other concept in souls games seems to be in constant shift.

[Aldain]

Basically just checkpoints, stamina-like systems, insanely low margin for error due to being fragile to an almost comical degree with limited recovery options and that's about it for core design imo.

The "You are made of paper" aspect stands out far more to me personally, because otherwise you'd have something more in the vein of Dragon's Dogma or Devil May Cry styled action games on their normal difficulties, or perhaps Monster Hunter-like qualities.

Personally the older I get the less I like the "Souls" formula because it just seems to be so obsessed with the "hardcore" title that it has become a parody of itself in some ways (I didn't care for a lot of Elden Ring's enemy design for example, felt like the worst balance since DS2 to me).

[Dexaldem]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Basically just checkpoints, stamina-like systems, insanely low margin for error due to being fragile to an almost comical degree with limited recovery options and that's about it for core design imo.

The "You are made of paper" aspect stands out far more to me personally, because otherwise you'd have something more in the vein of Dragon's Dogma or Devil May Cry styled action games on their normal difficulties, or perhaps Monster Hunter-like qualities.

Personally the older I get the less I like the "Souls" formula because it just seems to be so obsessed with the "hardcore" title that it has become a parody of itself in some ways (I didn't care for a lot of Elden Ring's enemy design for example, felt like the worst balance since DS2 to me).

Huh... I mean, I never cared for the Souls games personally. They just weren't my cup of tea, but I can definitely see what you mean. A lot of people do enjoy the Souls games, but that's naturally and quite obviously not what Armored Core is, was or ever was intended to be.

The people calling this game a "Souls-like" in earnest have never played Armored Core. The people calling it one out of jest are simply trolling around. xD

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Dexaldem:

Huh... I mean, I never cared for the Souls games personally. They just weren't my cup of tea, but I can definitely see what you mean. A lot of people do enjoy the Souls games, but that's naturally and quite obviously not what Armored Core is, was or ever was intended to be.

The people calling this game a "Souls-like" in earnest have never played Armored Core. The people calling it one out of jest are simply trolling around. xD

Honestly the Souls series probably would have panned out better imo were it not for the reputation of being "hard" that they garnered. Difficulty perception is part of the thing that causes people to conflate things with "Souls-like" most often I find.

Each one had top the next, until you have things that are unflinching 1-2 hit killing hitboxes on legs with opportunities to counterattack that are absurdly small. Add in the "skill issue" spambots who will bend over backwards to blame the player and not any possible questionable design (like final Zinaida in LR, who is in my honest opinion, the single worst designed boss in all of Armored Core).

That perception is a bigger shackle than anything else in my eyes, a limitation before the 0s and 1s even come together.

[Syn]

People are calling this a souls-like because it's been eleven billion years since the last AC game (approximately) and a lot of people only know the From Software game, which is that series of RPGs with hard difficulty and the same story about a broken world with broken magic that must be fixed by the protagonist in some messed up way copy-pasted several times.

It's like how people only know CDPR for their RPGs and not their long history of terrible PC ports and piracy.

[Count D'Cinamon]

Originally posted by Syn:

People are calling this a souls-like because it's been eleven billion years since the last AC game (approximately) and a lot of people only know the From Software game, which is that series of RPGs with hard difficulty and the same story about a broken world with broken magic that must be fixed by the protagonist in some messed up way copy-pasted several times.

It's like how people only know CDPR for their RPGs and not their long history of terrible PC ports and piracy.

i mean as weird as it sounds, there's a pretty decent hint of some souls-like element brought into this title that's not really present in the older AC series.

The camera Lock on similar to that in the soul-like series.
Some big enemy bosses with telegraphing attacks.
Melee weapon being more viable instead of it just being secondary.
The stagger mechanic.

of course, by saying it has souls like element doesn't necessarily mean it's just a simple mech reskin of the formula. It seems like it still retain what make AC, AC. like the mech customization and the mission based structure and elements of the fighting.

[Dixego]

Originally posted by Deadoon:

With how many peopel calling this a souls like, both honestly and disingenuously, this is something that should be asked.

I view a souls like as an action rpg with a high degree of telegraphing of attacks, a soft-checkpoint system, and the penalty for dying being sent back to that checkpoint while the game continues on with some sort of penalty. Every other concept in souls games seems to be in constant shift.

In addition to all of this I would also say stamina-based combat and a defense-offense shift in the rhythm of combat are all hallmarks of a Souls-like game.

...which is why Sekiro isn't one.

Anyways, I definitely think some Souls-y elements will make their way into ACVI, most likely as people have said in the enemy designs, staggering mechanics, possibly having some sort of lock-on, but I think it's pretty much impossible for it to really be a Souls-like game.

[Inertia]

For me, the "core" aspects of a souls-like that really make it like souls is the checkpoint and bloodstain system that respawns enemies, a stamina-based combat system focused around dodging/parrying, and a stat menu where you put points into each stat individually so you can create your own build. It's more shades of Souls than a binary yes/no, which is why things feel so muddied. You have "true" souls likes, like Nioh or Lords of the Fallen/The Surge, Mortal Shell, Code Vein, Remnant: From the Ashes, and so forth, while there's also "kinda" soulslikes, like Hollow Knight or Fallen Order, which have some of these systems but not all of them.

Obviously Armored Core isn't even in the same ballpark as the souls games in terms of genre, and that's fine. I don't go to AC for buildcraft or exploring forlorn environments while avoiding traps and backstabbing zombies, I play AC to customize giant robots and shoot other giant robots.

[FissionChips]

Souls-like to me is no I haven't plays souls and don't care. Souls-like is a useless descriptor to someone not interested in dark souls, it just makes me think "fan boy ♥♥♥♥ game, avoid".

[Caz]

Originally posted by Syn:

People are calling this a souls-like because it's been eleven billion years since the last AC game (approximately) and a lot of people only know the From Software game, which is that series of RPGs with hard difficulty and the same story about a broken world with broken magic that must be fixed by the protagonist in some messed up way copy-pasted several times.

It's like how people only know CDPR for their RPGs and not their long history of terrible PC ports and piracy.

Honestly souls-like should be called core-like since the first souls game was birthed from AC1 and its creative director.

[OJ191]

Originally posted by Dexaldem:

Originally posted by Aldain:

Basically just checkpoints, stamina-like systems, insanely low margin for error due to being fragile to an almost comical degree with limited recovery options and that's about it for core design imo.

The "You are made of paper" aspect stands out far more to me personally, because otherwise you'd have something more in the vein of Dragon's Dogma or Devil May Cry styled action games on their normal difficulties, or perhaps Monster Hunter-like qualities.

Personally the older I get the less I like the "Souls" formula because it just seems to be so obsessed with the "hardcore" title that it has become a parody of itself in some ways (I didn't care for a lot of Elden Ring's enemy design for example, felt like the worst balance since DS2 to me).

Huh... I mean, I never cared for the Souls games personally. They just weren't my cup of tea, but I can definitely see what you mean. A lot of people do enjoy the Souls games, but that's naturally and quite obviously not what Armored Core is, was or ever was intended to be.

The people calling this game a "Souls-like" in earnest have never played Armored Core. The people calling it one out of jest are simply trolling around. xD

I found this article quite interesting myself https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2023/04/30/examining-the-new-armored-core-vi-trailer-from-a-veteran-players-perspective/?sh=3ce0a2be7a71

[Kinshorin]

Originally posted by Deadoon:

With how many peopel calling this a souls like, both honestly and disingenuously, this is something that should be asked.

I view a souls like as an action rpg with a high degree of telegraphing of attacks, a soft-checkpoint system, and the penalty for dying being sent back to that checkpoint while the game continues on with some sort of penalty. Every other concept in souls games seems to be in constant shift.

I see souls-like as "an action RPG with leveling up which costs your main currency. A hard but fair challenge that gets easier the more you get used to it. Resource management including stamina, magic, and even health. Slower but methodical gameplay, Exploration of the world. I-Frame rolling. And finally, learning from failure." I do not view any one of these elements as being "souls-like" but the combination of all of these elements. And that's only the ones I could think of. There's a lot more subtle things that makes a souls game "souls" to me that, again, on there own don't make something "souls-like."

I feel like the people still trying to call AC6 a "souls-like" have either never played Armored Core before and just don't know anything about it (most normies), only know Fromsoftware for Souls games (like the last one, most normies), so desperately want every single game Fromsoftware makes to be "souls" in some way that they will go as far as to do mental gymnastics and INSIST that its "souls-like" by using the most vague and weak arguments and ideas to back their stance, even if told directly from the people making the game that it is not going to be similar to souls in any significant or discernible way, because they want to be right (mainly just certain souls fans and not all of them, some of which may or may not have youtube channels), or they're just trolling.

I have nothing against people who just don't know anything about AC. That's perfectly fine, it is a niche series after all. What I take issue with is the people trolling or who just want everything to be souls-like for one reason or another and insist it must be a souls-like, even if they are told "no its not souls-like" by the creators themselves.

[BlueAsterism]

Souls-like is a rather dirty term. In fact quite a lot of game developers on Steam tried using a lot of the elements and it still doesn't quite feel the same kind of energy and expectations as a Soulsborne game. One of the bigger missing heart components is that the developers of Fromsoft also include intricate customization or invasions, yes, but ultimately they'd subtly tell us in a weird way that we're some sort of champion of prophecies without directly saying it outright. They'll tell us there's a trial and put the ultimate ambitions in our head from the start. To the exception of Sekiro, we're generally this great changer of fate, but in a sense in Sekiro we are but a humble servant rescuing our lord and carrying out his wishes. In a sense this IS a great decider of fates also and a proper contribution besides the elements present. The painful thing is a lot of games take this to a more linear sense. Armored Core doesn't quite use the same level up, bonfire rest elements as the rule, and we've especially not seen buffs besides Ultimate Weapons in Gen 5 giving unlimited energy. For all this it's not a Souls-like, but it still has that Fromsoft heart of development, wanting to bring forth games they want to see and play.

In all honesty, I don't think they needed to even cater this hard to Souls fans with a few more pattern and telegraph combat features here or there, but in keeping Armored Core 6 fresh, it may become a welcome surprise in part of what distinguishes 6 as a flavor of Armored Core from previous entries.

[north]

if it plays like dark souls but it has a mecha-skin then it's dark souls.
elden mid = dark souls 5
armored core = dark souls 6

[Kinshorin]

Originally posted by north:

if it plays like dark souls but it has a mecha-skin then it's dark souls.
elden mid = dark souls 5
armored core = dark souls 6

Extremely low quality bait.

[Sabaithal]

Combat loop above all else. Souls games and soulslikes rely on a loop of attacking, dodging, and sometimes using maneuvering to evade attacks. Blocking is nice, but optional. Everything in souls games revolves around the combat, everything serves it in some way, so it is the core of the game.

In this sense Sekiro, while not a bad game by any means, is not a soulslike because the combat is much more focused on speedy attacking and parrying. It doesn't sound like much of a difference, but in practice it very much is.

I have no doubt AC6 will be a good game, but its not a souls game and it shouldn't try to be. What it should be, and what it certainly looks like it will be judging by the trailer, is the sequel to where AC:FA left off.