What leads you to believe the bosses were nerfed, exactly?

[Sabaithal]

Honest question, because I'm seeing claims of that everywhere yet the only note in the changelog from the recent update I can find says this:

"Adjusted certain attacks performed by the enemy units AAP07: BALTEUS, IA-13: SEA SPIDER and IB-01: CEL240."

That tells you NOTHING. Did someone datamine the game or something? Where are you guys getting this info???

[PFC Demigo [29th ID]]

Go to reddit, people already running comparison and data and saw how the bosses are not only less aggressive but their Status got Tweaked.
It's the same as what happen ESPECIALLY with General Radahn from Eldern Ring

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by PFC Demigo 29ID:

Go to reddit, people already running comparison and data and saw how the bosses are not only less aggressive but their Status got Tweaked.
It's the same as what happen ESPECIALLY with General Radahn from Eldern Ring

"Go to reddit". Very specific.

Also that BS with the Radahn nerf was already disproven. His hitboxes were adjusted, which caused a bug with his damage, which was then later corrected. End result: Hit hitboxes are more accurate. There was no nerf, just a bugfix.

[PFC Demigo [29th ID]]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by PFC Demigo 29ID:

Go to reddit, people already running comparison and data and saw how the bosses are not only less aggressive but their Status got Tweaked.
It's the same as what happen ESPECIALLY with General Radahn from Eldern Ring

"Go to reddit". Very specific.

Also that BS with the Radahn nerf was already disproven. His hitboxes were adjusted, which caused a bug with his damage, which was then later corrected. End result: Hit hitboxes are more accurate. There was no nerf, just a bugfix.

Bug fix? He become so easy when generally he was suppose to be hard.
He dies even quicky after the Patch. He isn't even super aggressive. Even the AI Summons can bully him to submission when before the Patch, he would trash the AI Summons.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by PFC Demigo 29ID:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

"Go to reddit". Very specific.

Also that BS with the Radahn nerf was already disproven. His hitboxes were adjusted, which caused a bug with his damage, which was then later corrected. End result: Hit hitboxes are more accurate. There was no nerf, just a bugfix.

Bug fix? He become so easy when generally he was suppose to be hard.
He dies even quicky after the Patch. He isn't even super aggressive. Even the AI Summons can bully him to submission when before the Patch, he would trash the AI Summons.

Well that's what happens when you go at him with improved gear on a second character. Of course he's going to be easier. Which most people don't seem to factor in. Oh and also all the passive OS upgrades.

Also the AI summons thing is BS. People claim that a lot, and its clear none of them have actually tested it. I have, they cannot kill him on their own before their spawns run out, and they will run out by the way. You cannot summon them infinitely like everyone assumes.

[Sabaithal]

ANYWAY, someone else who has actual information on the topic care to comment?

[Tsar Platinum]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by PFC Demigo 29ID:

Bug fix? He become so easy when generally he was suppose to be hard.
He dies even quicky after the Patch. He isn't even super aggressive. Even the AI Summons can bully him to submission when before the Patch, he would trash the AI Summons.

Well that's what happens when you go at him with improved gear on a second character. Of course he's going to be easier. Which most people don't seem to factor in. Oh and also all the passive OS upgrades.

Also the AI summons thing is BS. People claim that a lot, and its clear none of them have actually tested it. I have, they cannot kill him on their own before their spawns run out, and they will run out by the way. You cannot summon them infinitely like everyone assumes.

THANK YOU! LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

I cannot stand people spreading misinformation, claiming Radahn's HP and damage values are nerfed compared to Day 1. They're the same as they were day 1 and the only change was his hitboxes, which needed fixed because they were atrocious.

As for why the bosses were nerfed, it's because From Soft is a company and they want their games to be played by as many people as possible so they can make money and continue making games and make more money. At the end of the day, they're a company and they'll do whatever makes them the most money.

[Sabaithal]

I legit don't think the Balteus was nerfed. Went back and did him again only with gear that would have been available at NG status on that mission, no OS upgrades, and it was about the same level of difficulty as before.

People probably aren't factoring in the passive OS upgrades especially, they make a difference.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

ANYWAY, someone else who has actual information on the topic care to comment?

For Balteus I think it's just that it was too much for a Chapter 1 boss but it's far too late to restructure the game to keep previous output intact.

But I also don't think Balteus having low cooldown between actions was a good design either because it created far too many no-win situations where avoiding the missiles by getting close could lead to getting hit by a Shotgun/Bazooka round, and the tracking on the missiles doing near or complete 180 degree turns was overkill.

The Sea Spider? I always thought it was too durable for no good reason, it's already not an exciting boss that is mostly just a dumb wall of HP which is also a giant stagger magnet so really I consider it less interesting to fight than even the Smart Cleaner. Also if the math I've seen is right it really had no reason to have a massive 30ish percent reduction to both Explosive and Energy weapons, especially when the game's initial state for most ballistic weapons was ass. Also the hitbox on its melee slam was kind of inconsistent, I had been hit by it while directly to the side of the spider when it did it a few too many times

Finally the Ibis unit...I don't quite see what was changed too much, other than it not repeatedly performing the same actions over and over again (like that damn triple sword wave) and it seems to fly high in the air less, both of which are fairly valid adjustment in my opinion because each time you fought it there felt like an RNG chance of it just flying away from you forever or spamming high damage attacks, unless you stunlocked it to death.

Really to me for the most part it's all good adjustments, Balteus might have gotten hit a bit harder than intended (it does stand still a bit much now) but it makes the followup in the Liberator ending feel more like a proper upgrade at the very least.

[Tsar Platinum]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

ANYWAY, someone else who has actual information on the topic care to comment?

For Balteus I think it's just that it was too much for a Chapter 1 boss but it's far too late to restructure the game to keep previous output intact.

But I also don't think Balteus having low cooldown between actions was a good design either because it created far too many no-win situations where avoiding the missiles by getting close could lead to getting hit by a Shotgun/Bazooka round, and the tracking on the missiles doing near or complete 180 degree turns was overkill.

The Sea Spider? I always thought it was too durable for no good reason, it's already not an exciting boss that is mostly just a dumb wall of HP which is also a giant stagger magnet so really I consider it less interesting to fight than even the Smart Cleaner. Also if the math I've seen is right it really had no reason to have a massive 30ish percent reduction to both Explosive and Energy weapons, especially when the game's initial state for most ballistic weapons was ass. Also the hitbox on its melee slam was kind of inconsistent, I had been hit by it while directly to the side of the spider when it did it a few too many times

Finally the Ibis unit...I don't quite see what was changed too much, other than it not repeatedly performing the same actions over and over again (like that damn triple sword wave) and it seems to fly high in the air less, both of which are fairly valid adjustment in my opinion because each time you fought it there felt like an RNG chance of it just flying away from you forever or spamming high damage attacks, unless you stunlocked it to death.

Really to me for the most part it's all good adjustments, Balteus might have gotten hit a bit harder than intended (it does stand still a bit now) but it makes the followup in the Liberator ending feel more like a proper upgrade at the very least.

Sea Spider definitely had way too much HP. I think it's better this way because it could free up the amount of builds available to fight him.

Haven't fought him again yet post patch but hopefully my idea is true.

[Hikaru]

Pre-nerf radahn hitboxes were broken. Pre-nerf ibis cross slash, slash, and big beam tracking in general were broken unless you used a light mech or could tank them. Pre-nerf spider was kinda fine but also kinda stupid for certain laser attacks. I don't think the claws were a problem if you learned how to dodge under the spider instead of trying to run away or fly above(some mecha builds are broken and could vertically avoid the claws consistently. Try the same approach with a mid-weight mech that isn't specialized in flight). Pre-nerf balteus had way too much tracking on the cannon attack, maybe the missiles were excessive too and the flame attack. Just in general for how powerful you were at that time, balteus was broken. Especially if you didn't do much arena for os tuning, which is pretty common.

It's not rocket science. People should realize that from software doesn't typically want their normal bosses to be hard for the sake of being hard. They strive to make a balanced and fair experience. All these self-proclaimed "hardcore gamers" are out of touch with what gaming is meant to feel like. It's good that from software is listening to them less and less over time, because their influence was clearly swaying their boss and game design in the past.

What should impress people is mastery of mechanics, not clearing an overly difficult and imbalanced boss or level. That's what really takes skill and commitment anyway, to do things very well. Not to just clear the boss. Almost everyone should be able to clear the bosses given the right mentality.

[John Titor]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

ANYWAY, someone else who has actual information on the topic care to comment?

Come on dude, who's going to have "actual information"?

Well, come to think of it, I do. Yamamura whispered the answer to this very question in my ear last night. He said...

Originally posted by Masaru Yamamura:

Why not? lol

[Hiro]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

I legit don't think the Balteus was nerfed. Went back and did him again only with gear that would have been available at NG status on that mission, no OS upgrades, and it was about the same level of difficulty as before.

People probably aren't factoring in the passive OS upgrades especially, they make a difference.

That is what I was thinking, people go at these early game bosses with late game gear and OS upgrades and say its so much easier well of course it is at that point +15% to damage and -15% to incoming damage makes a huge difference. Bally was a joke before and after the supposed nerf with late game gear and OS upgrades in NG+

[REBirthTheEdge]

I definitely think the complaints get to them and they cave.

It's not a good look because it looks like they ♥♥♥♥♥ out when the majority of the playerbase has beaten these bosses.

[Key]

I'm gonna take a guess and say it's to allow for more variety in builds, as 95% of the playerbase had defaulted to double zimmerman/gatling + double songbird/needle.

[REBirthTheEdge]

There is no proof the playerbase actually used meta build, the Youtube videos were showing all kinds of beating the bosses.
There's no direct or specific strategies either, except just being aggressive with your shots and trying to dodge enemy fire.

Now that over 80% player base has beaten Balteus, the nerf came in, this is rubbing some feathers and making From look bad.