Unbiased opinion requested

[The Isoscelian]

Good day everyone.
First and foremost, for the context : I am a big SMT fan. Started with Devil summoner on Saturn, played both Persona 1 and 2.2, rediscovered SMT with Nocturne and Avatar Tuner on PS2, and played Persona 3 to 5 like everyone else.

I was HYPED when SMT 5 was announced, way more than I could have been if a new persona game has been announced instead.

Sadly, I despised the experience. In my humble opinion (and you have the right to disagree), the game felt rushed and incomplete, missing essential chunk of the story. I know these games tend to leave some blanks up to the player to interprete, but this was something else.
I remember being like... "F*** you, game" by the time I faced the last boss. It felt so disjointed.

The gameplay, while a clear upgrade from Nocturne, has also it's flaws (most notably, the soft cap on levels and the mitama DLC to balance it).

So, here I am. I want to enjoy this game. I am infuriated that Atlus is asking us to pay full price for a game that is, at its core a fixed version of the mess the first sold us. But still, I want to enjoy it.

Does anyone who felt underwhelmed by the first game managed to find this version a fine redemption for SMT 5 ?

[Yuu]

The original SMT5 main problem for me was the story, it was a mess
Despite that i still enjoy the gameplay, the music, the world in SMT5

In Vengeance version, the story is better yeah, it is good but nothing really amazing, at the very least it does not dampened my experience with the game unlike the original.

The gameplay is still good and they add 89 more amazing tracks into the game on top of the original 127 tracks.
It removed the level different scaling in Vengeance version with lots more quality of life like save anywhere.

So if you didn't enjoy the gameplay or the music of the original SMT5 then Vengeance version won't really help that much. But if you do then this is certainly still good game to play.
If 60$ is too much then you can wait for sale i guess.

[RDG]

I played vanilla on switch years ago, replaying it now again on the normal route. To me the story was pretty much non existant on vanilla, but I did enjoy the gameplay and I am a sucker for the fusion mini game, sometimes I spend up to 3 hours just fusing ♥♥♥♥ up and down.
Now if the new story is good I welcome it, but it won't stop me from enjoying the gameplay I already loved.

[Blunette]

The battle system in Vengeance is the best it's ever been in my personal opinion. You can get really creative with some of the strategies and it feels like almost every demon has at least some niche or use. Magatsuhi Meter is also better than Smirk in my personal opinion, I'm still kind of horrified at 4's original version of that.

But yeah, I get it. You do bring up a good point about the first version being rough. I personally thought that the Switch's hardware and the pandemic really stifled the development scale behind the scenes on the original. I think it's worth the money just to be able to play the game on something that's not choking barely 30fps at times, and the Vengeance storyline for the most part does expand on certain concepts and ideas from the original (while stifling others somewhat but it's understandable why when you get there).

If you're unsure about paying full price again, then don't. You can probably safely wait for a sale.

[The Isoscelian]

Thank you everyone, I appreciate your inputs.

All in all, does the story revolves more around the allied characters than the original did ?

I always thought it was a giant waste to have these characters with great potential basically vanish midway through the story, only to reappear in the end as what could be basically considered brand new characters (...And leaning on one-dimensionnal shonen characters).

I think that aspect bothered me the most. They could have done so much more with the material.

[SkaaTerminator]

I’m gonna be honest, I hated the gameplay of Vanilla SMT V, The story didn’t disappoint me the gameplay did. This is a very unpopular opinion but the reason why I hated the gameplay of OG V was the level scaling. This reason alone hampered my experience because the majority of the mainline games don't have this issue, with the exception of the first two Famicom titles.

Vengence is a massive upgrade because they removed one of the most asinine choices, but I still don’t think V has peak gameplay because of one problem, temporary buffs. On hard mode this is a huge problem because bosses are very tanky on hard mode and I hate that I have to reapply the buffs every three turns, it is so annoying.

It is especially bad once you get luster candy and debilitate you burn through mp very quickly (seriously 150 mp for both those buffs),and no I don’t like wasting a slot with boon boost or boon boost ex. I like the x2 stack but I hate having to waste 300 mp on luster candy and 300mp on debilitate every three turns (yes if you get your support demons to +5 it reduces the mp cost but it is still in the triple digits). Luckily there’s a mod that makes the buffs permanent and on my next playthrough I’m using that mod.

TLDR: SMT V could have the best gameplay in the series if they fixed this one issue, luckily there’s a mod for that.

[Blunette]

Originally posted by X:

Vengence is a massive upgrade because they removed one of the most asinine choices, but I still don’t think V has peak gameplay because of one problem, temporary buffs. On hard mode this is a huge problem because bosses are very tanky on hard mode and I hate that I have to reapply the buffs every three turns, it is so annoying.

I don't bother with buff spells beyond Rakujaka until I get the Ma variants, way more reliable to use single-target debuffs on the boss instead and just go +2/-2 when it's about to expire. Also, Boon Boost and Boon Boost EX exist. One increases status duration by a turn, the other by two, and they stack. Slap those on your support demons and you can basically sit cozy for five turns to do whatever you want.

[Unknownsurfin]

Originally posted by Blunette:

The battle system in Vengeance is the best it's ever been in my personal opinion. You can get really creative with some of the strategies and it feels like almost every demon has at least some niche or use. Magatsuhi Meter is also better than Smirk in my personal opinion, I'm still kind of horrified at 4's original version of that.

But yeah, I get it. You do bring up a good point about the first version being rough. I personally thought that the Switch's hardware and the pandemic really stifled the development scale behind the scenes on the original. I think it's worth the money just to be able to play the game on something that's not choking barely 30fps at times, and the Vengeance storyline for the most part does expand on certain concepts and ideas from the original (while stifling others somewhat but it's understandable why when you get there).

If you're unsure about paying full price again, then don't. You can probably safely wait for a sale. :SMT5V_Mothman:

HAHAHAHGAHAHAHAHAH please tell me this is a badly timed april fools post. Its the worst in the franchise and is a complete disgrace. Item damperners = Win. The game could not be easire if it tried.

[Unknownsurfin]

Originally posted by Ω:

Good day everyone.
First and foremost, for the context : I am a big SMT fan. Started with Devil summoner on Saturn, played both Persona 1 and 2.2, rediscovered SMT with Nocturne and Avatar Tuner on PS2, and played Persona 3 to 5 like everyone else.

I was HYPED when SMT 5 was announced, way more than I could have been if a new persona game has been announced instead.

Sadly, I despised the experience. In my humble opinion (and you have the right to disagree), the game felt rushed and incomplete, missing essential chunk of the story. I know these games tend to leave some blanks up to the player to interprete, but this was something else.
I remember being like... "F*** you, game" by the time I faced the last boss. It felt so disjointed.

The gameplay, while a clear upgrade from Nocturne, has also it's flaws (most notably, the soft cap on levels and the mitama DLC to balance it).

So, here I am. I want to enjoy this game. I am infuriated that Atlus is asking us to pay full price for a game that is, at its core a fixed version of the mess the first sold us. But still, I want to enjoy it.

Does anyone who felt underwhelmed by the first game managed to find this version a fine redemption for SMT 5 ?

Please ignore the post you quoted as the awnser, Listen to someone that shares your views and did not buy the mass postive hysteria of the first game, its worse than ever, made even more easy and mindless, people are just on mass priasing the game without basis just like the first game, its a low quality port lacking the most basic features the story is still non existent and is a complete disgrace. Vengance does nothing but make what was bad about the game even worse.

[SkaaTerminator]

Originally posted by Blunette:

I don't bother with buff spells beyond Rakujaka until I get the Ma variants, way more reliable to use single-target debuffs on the boss instead and just go +2/-2 when it's about to expire. Also, Boon Boost and Boon Boost EX exist. One increases status duration by a turn, the other by two, and they stack. Slap those on your support demons and you can basically sit cozy for five turns to do whatever you want. :SMT5V_JackFrost:

As did I, but did you read the last paragraph after this specific one you quoted? Here let me quote it.

Originally posted by X:

It is especially bad once you get luster candy and debilitate you burn through mp very quickly (seriously 150 mp for both those buffs),AND NO I DON'T LIKE WASTING A SLOT WITH BOON BOOST OR BOON BOOST EX. I like the x2 stack but I hate having to waste 300 mp on luster candy and 300mp on debilitate every three turns (yes if you get your support demons to +5 it reduces the mp cost but it is still in the triple digits).

[Blunette]

Great Mana Spring/Energy Drain exist.

[SkaaTerminator]

Originally posted by Blunette:

Great Mana Spring/Energy Drain exist.

Still doesn’t mitigate the 600 mp every three turns, it adds up in boss fights. Tiamat is the perfect showcase of why temporary buffs are a problem on hard mode and in general.

[lexia88]

Originally posted by Ω:

... the game felt rushed and incomplete, missing essential chunk of the story. I know these games tend to leave some blanks up to the player to interprete, but this was something else.
I remember being like... "F*** you, game" by the time I faced the last boss. It felt so disjointed.

Does anyone who felt underwhelmed by the first game managed to find this version a fine redemption for SMT 5 ?

I too felt quite underwhelmed finishing the original SMT5, but that was mostly because SMTIV spoiled me too much with it's amazing story and world building. This time too, you shouldn't expect the game to have the rich atmosphere IV, SJ:R or DS:O had. There are some neat improvements though:

The human characters feel much more like actual people and I'm saying this as someone who didn't care about any of them previously. Vengeance has improved most of them (especially Yuzuru and Aogami) while making one much worse, but it makes sense why ingame, so I won't spoil it. The new human character is very interesting and kinda unhinged and the reddit memes about a specific thing she said about... "cars", were extremely funny. Some cute side quests with new mini stories were added, some were removed on the Vengeance route. I'm sad we lost the Black Frost/Dionysus quest.

I haven't finished the game yet though, so take this as a simple impression. What makes or breaks the experience for me will be the endings and if Atlus once more forces us to face Shiva for one of the endings. If the endings are equally bland as in 5, it might drag the entire story down. But I honestly hope it won't.

[SkaaTerminator]

But to be on topic, the canon of Vengence is better but in terms of story it doesn’t hit the highs like SMT II or Strange Journey does, those games have some of the best stories In the Megami Tensei franchise.

[jbkilroy]

Lategame/Endgame Vengeance spoilers:

Did it strike anyone else as odd that that the plot of Vengeance just kind of... stops? You have the group battle against the 4 Qadistu, then after you win you lose in the cutscene when they use a power that we've never seen before, then they vanish from the game without explanation.

After that you're more or less back on the original plotline/areas until the endgame boss fights start. Only about 30% in the middle of a playthrough is new.

(Also Mastema's boss fight in the Chaos route makes no sense to me plotwise)

[Ailor]

Originally posted by X:

TLDR: SMT V could have the best gameplay in the series if they fixed this one issue, luckily there’s a mod for that.

The whole game is balanced around buffs not being permanent with the mana efficenecy and management. There are plenty of new skills that apply debuffs while attacking or doing something else. And you even refuse to use boon for some reason. Don't just blindly spam debilitate on every encounter, you don't need that most of the time.
It's okay if you have problems with mp management and use mods to cheat the game so you can have more fun. Absolutely fine, play however you want. But don't blame the game for that :)