Best moment to change from magic to strength build

[「ai q sonim」]

I'm playing Canon of Creation, and I'm in the third map. Also, I haven't beaten the boss yet (Surt). I've been running a magic build, but I'm aware that strength gets an advantage at some point, I just don't know when.

I have just unlocked Aogami Type-7, which comes with Wrath Tempest. I tried switching to a strength build to have a look at its potential, but I can't seem to get crits reliably, even with Bloody Glee. I've tried both Wrath Tempest and Severing Bite, from Aogami Type-C. From what I've noticed, I'm doing about the same damage, but without getting Press Turns.

Any advice?

[Gaiba]

Strength can remain competitive through basically all of the content as far as I'm aware (though it takes awhile to get the Essence that gives you the magic skill that allows for that).

[「ai q sonim」]

Originally posted by Gaiba:

Strength can remain competitive through basically all of the content as far as I'm aware (though it takes awhile to get the Essence that gives you the magic skill that allows for that).

I know, but there's a point in which the strength build gets ahead, right? I wanted to know when, so I don't have to keep testing every now and then.

[MicroStutterEngine]

Originally posted by 「ai q sonim」:

Originally posted by Gaiba:

Strength can remain competitive through basically all of the content as far as I'm aware (though it takes awhile to get the Essence that gives you the magic skill that allows for that).

I know, but there's a point in which the strength build gets ahead, right? I wanted to know when, so I don't have to keep testing every now and then.

Midgame

[「ai q sonim」]

Originally posted by MicroStutterEngine:

Originally posted by 「ai q sonim」:

I know, but there's a point in which the strength build gets ahead, right? I wanted to know when, so I don't have to keep testing every now and then.

Midgame

When is midgame exactly? I would say I'm already at midgame, since I'm level 50+. Which skills should I be looking for?

[Blunette]

Boosting your Physical Affinity helps a lot, but I'd not go all-in on it due to being able to pick up the Almighty skills in Area 4 (Sakanagi works but it's really more of a 'boss is resistant to Phys' skill). Ironically enough I found that the Strength build started to take off right around when I could get Dyne-tier skills for magic coverage on the demons. Unfortunately Canon of Creation means you're missing out on Mara's Essence in the midgame (Enduring Soul that early on is just plain psychotic, and having Heavy Piercing also is nice too even if it costs like 35 MP a thrust). Turns out that all your Dracostrikes run off each of those element's affinities, which seriously hampers diversity beyond 'I need something to hit boss with for Press Turn'. Not to mention Strength is really skill-slot intensive.

Aramasa still works for crit-fishing into the midgame before you get a hold of your heavier skills, I personally never liked Wrath Tempest outside of bosses due to the multi-hits also being multi-target. If you want a different multi-hit move with a higher crit rate, get Steel Needle off Lamia/Anzu, that and a Glee will nearly guarantee at least one crit if you don't roll singles. I'd also recommend starting to give your support demons the Donum spells, better to have the buffers/healers using their downtime to boost Nahobino or another punchy demon because Charge/Impalers/Crit being used by the attacker went out of style a while ago. Well, unless you're doing wacky one-tap strats.

[Smugleaf]

Phys builds do require more effort to work effectively compared to magic builds to maximize press turns, but the main advantage is that they do get stronger skills and since you're only focused on physical/almighty elements, you don't really need to keep changing skills around that much aside from upgrading them, so you can typically keep the same pleromas and other passives. They also have more variety since they can debuff or inflict ailments while magic skills all only do damage aside from unique spells.

To compare, Venom Chaser, a skill you can get around the end of the first area, has 320 power against poisoned enemies while the strongest non-unique magic skills only have 265 power.
Phys builds also gets stuff like Sakanagi which is found at the start of the second area, and despite how early you get it, it's actually stronger than -dyne spells and even Ruinous Thunder even though the Aogami essence with Ruinous Thunder comes after Sakanagi.
The power of skills are all listed here: https://aqiu384.github.io/megaten-fusion-tool/smt5v/skills

[Gaiba]

Pretty sure Heavenly Ikuyumi can put out more damage reliably per turn than Murakumo, which is why I said that earlier. Not just that it stays competitive.

[Puns]

I'd recommend strength build when you're able to stack a crit based build.

[edo30025]

I would say any build with both boosts and critical boost begin to really do damage after you hit level 70+. The most damage based moves end up being high critical damage moves. When you hit the new newgame rebirth option in the Canon of Vengeance endgame, you can literally have the legitimate option to have 999 stats on each stat. You can achieve this through ingame option tweaking the difficulty slider.

[UwU OwO]

Canon of Vengeance, I went Strength and Luck all the way. My Strength is at 90/100. I just beaten the Level 61 Cleopatra side quest at level 49 in Normal difficulty lmao

[「ai q sonim」]

Thanks everyone. I believe I agree with GetShrecked. I understand that the physical build is capable of dishing out a little bit more damage (not considering crits or weaknesses), but I wouldn't be able to get press turns reliably, which makes a huge difference to me at the moment. I'm playing on hard, so every extra action counts.

When I unlock an essence with the second crit chance passive, I'll try the strength build again.

[Blunette]

Don't forget that if Press Turns are of a greater issue, you can always sit Nahobino in the later-acting party slots and have your coverage/tailored demons moving first. But seriously, the Donum skills on your buffers/debuffers and especially once you start getting Debilitate/Luster Candy access, it's nuts.

[Hanzo]

Originally posted by 「ai q sonim」:

Thanks everyone. I believe I agree with GetShrecked. I understand that the physical build is capable of dishing out a little bit more damage (not considering crits or weaknesses), but I wouldn't be able to get press turns reliably, which makes a huge difference to me at the moment. I'm playing on hard, so every extra action counts.

When I unlock an essence with the second crit chance passive, I'll try the strength build again.

You could use items to get press turn. But question is why do you want to switch to STR build? You could pick any element (except dark/light because there are no "pierce" type skills) and have fun with it. Get 2 Pleromas, Enduring Soul, pierce skill, -"barion"/"dyne" skills and mass skill. You could get also some additional skill for 2 other elements. You could also build a party to match this element to make skills crit, deal more weakness damage, etc

[「ai q sonim」]

Originally posted by Blunette:

Don't forget that if Press Turns are of a greater issue, you can always sit Nahobino in the later-acting party slots and have your coverage/tailored demons moving first. But seriously, the Donum skills on your buffers/debuffers and especially once you start getting Debilitate/Luster Candy access, it's nuts.

Yeah, I always do that when my Nahobino can't target the enemy's weakness. Regarding the Donum skills, they are indeed powerful, but at the moment I don't think it's worth to use it instead of simply doing damage + generating a press turn.

Originally posted by Hanzo:

Originally posted by 「ai q sonim」:

Thanks everyone. I believe I agree with GetShrecked. I understand that the physical build is capable of dishing out a little bit more damage (not considering crits or weaknesses), but I wouldn't be able to get press turns reliably, which makes a huge difference to me at the moment. I'm playing on hard, so every extra action counts.

When I unlock an essence with the second crit chance passive, I'll try the strength build again.

You could use items to get press turn. But question is why do you want to switch to STR build? You could pick any element (except dark/light because there are no "pierce" type skills) and have fun with it. Get 2 Pleromas, Enduring Soul, pierce skill, -"barion"/"dyne" skills and mass skill. You could get also some additional skill for 2 other elements. You could also build a party to match this element to make skills crit, deal more weakness damage, etc

I'm having fun with a magic build at the moment, but I don't want to make a whole demon setup just to maximize an specific element type of damage. My idea is to use two elemental demons to target weaknesses, a support one and finally the Nahobino with a full critical/physical build.

[Haruspex]

From the start? You do way more damage with physical unique build. Physical is only ♥♥♥♥ for other demons who doesn't have unique multi hit skills that Nahobino does.
It gets definitely ahead the moment you get access to critical zealot and pleromas. Also it gets silly once you get skills that buffs stats and decreases enemy defense.