Both Vengeance Endings sucks, especially Chaos Ending

[Sejman22]

Do you guys have also mixed reception about 2 new endings in this game ? I really enjoyed story of this game until ,,Alignment Lock'' (battle with Lilith). After that i feel game was rushed, especially on Chaos side. I know, most of previous SMT games were biased with Neutral or Chaos alignment, but this time game clearly WANT PLAYER TO GOT LAW ENDING. Not only it have better final boss fight, but all side quest favour Law alignment (for example Onyakopon and Kresnik are much better demons than Anansi and Kudlak). In my opinion both new endings sucks. New Law Ending is similar to Strange Journey Redux New Law Ending, but much worse, because unlike in SJR this ending have no downsides. Everyone are happy like in anime. You are basically a God-Djinn who gave everyone what they want, a pure utopia. Not to mention this endings feels to me more like Persona ending, not SMT ending. Atleast final boss is much better, than ,,meme fight'' with Mastema. Chaos route is even worse, it's just White Ending from SMT IV, but without nihilism. You create a world from nothing (void), pure chaos. The only one thing i liked about this is reference to Adam and Eve. And why there is no New Neutral Ending in Vengeance Route ???

[Aragorness]

I find the law ending extremely similar to the OG true neutral ending, but with demons still in the world, supposedly, since it didn't show any demon on the actual ending. And i rly don't see the game wanting the player to get law ending. I find that getting to fight and get Mastema as a demon way cooler than the fight on the law ending. Even so I wont use my biased opinion to decide they wanted you to get the chaos ending cuz Mastema and new goddess Yoko.

[MESeele]

At least you get a waifu in Vengeance Chaos I'm pretty sure!

Mastema gotta a good reaction 1st turn. I unloaded 6 Figment slashes into him, and was surprised to see a screen full of press turns for him. He...wasn't much even then though. True, he was kinda disappointing.

Vengeance Law is the only route I haven't done over this and the Switch, so I won't comment on that.

You seem to want an ultra neutral ending though? What would that even be like? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but what would you have liked to have seen? God is dead, so, fight the Great Will? The cosmology is definitely based in Vedic. So the Great Will is probably Brahman. Maybe an extra area in spirit land which is not the material world of infinite perpetual suffering? I feel like that's being saved for a far future game tbh (though Brahman does appear in DDS2). I mean, we first kill God in SMT2 I think? I don't remember when the Great Will was first mentioned by name, but it was referred to even back then...

[Sejman22]

Originally posted by MESeele:

You seem to want an ultra neutral ending though? What would that even be like?

I'm that guy, if for me Law and Chaos endings sucks, then i go to Neutral. But in Vengeance there is no Neutral Ending, game force you to go into extremes, and I hate that.

For me best edings:
Law Ending - SMT 2,
New Chaos Ending - SMT Strange Journey Redux
New Neutral Ending - SMT Strange Journey Redux

And SMT V Vengeance endings are just variations of endings which i personally hate (New Law Ending from SJR, and White Ending from SMT IV + Waifu). If i don't like those two endings, there should be a third option (Neutral) for people who are not convinced by them. In Vengeance there should be a Neutral-Chaos route, when you can save Atsuta from killing by Dazai, and recreate a world in a way what Jimenez did in Strange Journey Redux - a chaotic world when humans and demons live together, without wipping humanity from existence. This is a true primordial world (pre Marduk), where people prayed to multiple gods, not that ,,reset button'' BS.

[Sammy]

I feel like a neutral ending in Vengeance Route would be a bit redundant tbh.
Like the original games True Neutral still has you basically destroy the throne, to essentially end the cycle while also granting a world that's just for Humanity, ridding it of deities of Law and Chaos.

I also think it makes more sense in Vengeance that you either side with Tao or Yoko.
A matter of accepting the system has flaws, but trying to fix it regardless and be better, vs thinking the system is too broken and is only ever destined to fall apart and cycle again, so resetting it all from scratch without the system in place being the better option.

And the reason why I feel like this makes more sense because Tao in Vengeance still has her humanity. I think Vengeance Tao is the best bet at a system under a watchful God/Gods in universe because they were human and still retain their humanity and strive to make the best of a flawed system for humanity.

Or again, you can outright deny this system structure and what it stands for and results in and try to refresh it all, to hopefully even the playing field without some overlord of control of it all.
But they're both thinking along the veins of what's best for humanity and humans as a whole, not necessarily a world of Law or Chaos.

I'm not sure what a Neutral would be in Vengeance compared to what True Neutral in CoC already basically does.

And I'd argue it makes more sense to go Neutral in CoC because Tao in that route basically loses her humanity, she never got the revelations that Yoko was able to provide and dies early, so when she becomes a Goddess, she's just the will of the Order first and foremost and not Humanity oriented.
And Chaos route is basically a more even playing field for the gods, in that the gods of Japan would be able to stand their own ground and protect people, but that still puts more bearing on them than the humans themselves.

I just think Vengeances endings add some interesting additions to what we already had.
They're both Law and Chaos oriented sure but with much different outcomes and also including the notion of destroying the throne with it and what that means for them.

[volzuloof]

Why do people still say waifu its like the biggest red flag for someones opinions ever

[MESeele]

Originally posted by volzuloof:

Why do people still say waifu its like the biggest red flag for someones opinions ever

That's because that is what she is by developer intention. P4G, P5R, SJR, SMTVV... Atlus remakes add a waifu. It is always a cute girl that Japanese developers think their audience will re-buy a game for. It is important to note however, that just because the devs think the character is, does not mean the audience agrees. I think Yoko turned out to be an interesting character, but humorously enough, the poem girl from P4G and the girl from SJR are widely hated. The read-head from P5G adds nothing.

You seem to be saying that someone's opinion matters less because they say "waifu", but just because they call her that, does not mean they are the ones that buy into it. Just imagine them rolling their eyes while they type it.

[Useless]

I like the chaos ending a lot

[Sejman22]

Originally posted by MESeele:

Originally posted by volzuloof:

Why do people still say waifu its like the biggest red flag for someones opinions ever

That's because that is what she is by developer intention. P4G, P5R, SJR, SMTVV... Atlus remakes add a waifu. It is always a cute girl that Japanese developers think their audience will re-buy a game for. It is important to note however, that just because the devs think the character is, does not mean the audience agrees. I think Yoko turned out to be an interesting character, but humorously enough, the poem girl from P4G and the girl from SJR are widely hated. The read-head from P5G adds nothing.

You seem to be saying that someone's opinion matters less because they say "waifu", but just because they call her that, does not mean they are the ones that buy into it. Just imagine them rolling their eyes while they type it.

The only good ,,rerelease girl'' in Atlus games was Nemesia from Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology (which is still best Atlus game ever made).