Vyce is still too strong

[John]

Let it be known.

-Low diamond.

[John]

And the matchmaking system is still broken. When a simple swap of players between teams would resolve an unbalanced game then the coding that put the teams together in the first place has got to be garbage.

[LynX]

Vyce's counter is literally Q and walking around her. She's no stronger than most of the top strikers now. Arguably lower than them.

[John]

Originally posted by LynX:

Vyce's counter is literally Q and walking around her. She's no stronger than most of the top strikers now. Arguably lower than them.

Her ult is the least strong part of her kit, the AOE being as large as it is is still mega stupid, but her primary and secondary are what makes her a problem.

Either cooldowns need to go up on those or they'd need to be gutted of stats because currently she eats the entire cake.

[janfri]

Facheros todos

[LynX]

Originally posted by John:

Originally posted by LynX:

Vyce's counter is literally Q and walking around her. She's no stronger than most of the top strikers now. Arguably lower than them.

Her ult is the least strong part of her kit, the AOE being as large as it is is still mega stupid, but her primary and secondary are what makes her a problem.

Either cooldowns need to go up on those or they'd need to be gutted of stats because currently she eats the entire cake.

her stuff is useful but again. it's still not problematic. sure i can see the stun from her teleport. but at the end of the day look at the top strikers in the game and you can see she's kinda average.

Like would i take an ai.mi or a vyce? era or a vyce? zentaro or a vyce?

hell even as goalie would i prefer a kai or a vyce? asher, atlas, drek, luna. i can keep going.

Her cooldowns were also nerfed in the last balancing they did for her and octavia.

it's certainly what your comp has an issue with but overall she is not the strongest striker in the game nor is she really high above everyone.

[Spikà]

Originally posted by LynX:

Originally posted by John:

Her ult is the least strong part of her kit, the AOE being as large as it is is still mega stupid, but her primary and secondary are what makes her a problem.

Either cooldowns need to go up on those or they'd need to be gutted of stats because currently she eats the entire cake.

her stuff is useful but again. it's still not problematic. sure i can see the stun from her teleport. but at the end of the day look at the top strikers in the game and you can see she's kinda average.

Like would i take an ai.mi or a vyce? era or a vyce? zentaro or a vyce?

hell even as goalie would i prefer a kai or a vyce? asher, atlas, drek, luna. i can keep going.

Her cooldowns were also nerfed in the last balancing they did for her and octavia.

it's certainly what your comp has an issue with but overall she is not the strongest striker in the game nor is she really high above everyone.

Unfortunately, but just because she isn't a top striker doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with her kit. She is an absolute unstoppable force in lower skill matches. I played her in lower ratings and it was a tragic murder scene. People don't know how to click Q, and even if they do, people are not good enough to consistently dodge her other abilities. I don't think I have played her in a single game where my damage by the end of the game isn't several magnitudes higher than anyone else in the game. And more often than not well over 10 K.Os. No one else in the game has such consistent power. Even if you dodge her primary, it might just hit your teammate and still hit you via the chain.

[LynX]

Originally posted by Spikà:

Originally posted by LynX:

her stuff is useful but again. it's still not problematic. sure i can see the stun from her teleport. but at the end of the day look at the top strikers in the game and you can see she's kinda average.

Like would i take an ai.mi or a vyce? era or a vyce? zentaro or a vyce?

hell even as goalie would i prefer a kai or a vyce? asher, atlas, drek, luna. i can keep going.

Her cooldowns were also nerfed in the last balancing they did for her and octavia.

it's certainly what your comp has an issue with but overall she is not the strongest striker in the game nor is she really high above everyone.

Unfortunately, but just because she isn't a top striker doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with her kit. She is an absolute unstoppable force in lower skill matches. I played her in lower ratings and it was a tragic murder scene. People don't know how to click Q, and even if they do, people are not good enough to consistently dodge her other abilities. I don't think I have played her in a single game where my damage by the end of the game isn't several magnitudes higher than anyone else in the game. And more often than not well over 10 K.Os. No one else in the game has such consistent power. Even if you dodge her primary, it might just hit your teammate and still hit you via the chain.

You always gotta remember.

If you start nerfing Vyce because lower tiers aren't taking the lesson she, luna and X give. Then you start bringing everyone's kit down.

You're talking about the "lower ratings". Which is where noob stompers are always sitting. You will not be able to tell me a game that characters like that don't exist on. Where they will just do absolute massacres in low end. but mid-high they are pretty middle of the pack.

It's half the reason X was nerfed over and over again in beta and even in live. In high silver+. he was considered ok at launch. he was definitely gutted. but he was nerfed again and now he's absolutely pointless to play over everyone else. Unless you manage to be so good at him you can kind of make up for it. But this was also the "rise of the S tier Juno" moment as he was the main counter.

At least i would like to see strikers not be gutted into the trash because bronze players struggle with it. If she can't pressure through her ability to punish the enemy not spreading out. then she will be absolutely awful compared to ai.mi and you'd just do Luna and achieve what Vyce is doing now.

[John]

Originally posted by LynX:

her stuff is useful but again. it's still not problematic. sure i can see the stun from her teleport. but at the end of the day look at the top strikers in the game and you can see she's kinda average.

it's certainly what your comp has an issue with but overall she is not the strongest striker in the game nor is she really high above everyone.

Agree to disagree.

I'm currently 7 points away from mid diamond, I've played a dozen games against her and it's not very hard to see that she's stronger than the other strikers. Especially when people understand what makes her strong.

She's not op op as she was before, but she's still stronger than most.

[Red]

"Just use your incredibly valuable resource that comes back way slower than the cooldowns of the problem characters" is my absolute favorite take I see on the forums. Bronze players out in full force today.

[Spikà]

Originally posted by LynX:

Originally posted by Spikà:

Unfortunately, but just because she isn't a top striker doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with her kit. She is an absolute unstoppable force in lower skill matches. I played her in lower ratings and it was a tragic murder scene. People don't know how to click Q, and even if they do, people are not good enough to consistently dodge her other abilities. I don't think I have played her in a single game where my damage by the end of the game isn't several magnitudes higher than anyone else in the game. And more often than not well over 10 K.Os. No one else in the game has such consistent power. Even if you dodge her primary, it might just hit your teammate and still hit you via the chain.

You always gotta remember.

If you start nerfing Vyce because lower tiers aren't taking the lesson she, luna and X give. Then you start bringing everyone's kit down.

You're talking about the "lower ratings". Which is where noob stompers are always sitting. You will not be able to tell me a game that characters like that don't exist on. Where they will just do absolute massacres in low end. but mid-high they are pretty middle of the pack.

It's half the reason X was nerfed over and over again in beta and even in live. In high silver+. he was considered ok at launch. he was definitely gutted. but he was nerfed again and now he's absolutely pointless to play over everyone else. Unless you manage to be so good at him you can kind of make up for it. But this was also the "rise of the S tier Juno" moment as he was the main counter.

At least i would like to see strikers not be gutted into the trash because bronze players struggle with it. If she can't pressure through her ability to punish the enemy not spreading out. then she will be absolutely awful compared to ai.mi and you'd just do Luna and achieve what Vyce is doing now.

I never implied she should be exclusively nerfed, I implied her kit is flawed and just really difficult to balance. Because on the lower end she is broken/OP, while on the higher end she might be decent or good. A flat nerf is only going to make her worse (obviously), but she needs buff or changes to her kit to make up for the nerfs so she stays decent or good in higher ranks, but not completely stomping low ranks. I am not a high rank player, so I can't really speak for her performance there, but she is an absolute monster to deal with in low rank (I can somewhat deal with her for the most part, but my team usually can't).

And for X, he definitely have been nerfed into garbage tier. Without his best items I feel you can just ignore his existence. I don't recall having any issues playing against him.

[LynX]

Originally posted by Spikà:

Originally posted by LynX:

You always gotta remember.

If you start nerfing Vyce because lower tiers aren't taking the lesson she, luna and X give. Then you start bringing everyone's kit down.

You're talking about the "lower ratings". Which is where noob stompers are always sitting. You will not be able to tell me a game that characters like that don't exist on. Where they will just do absolute massacres in low end. but mid-high they are pretty middle of the pack.

It's half the reason X was nerfed over and over again in beta and even in live. In high silver+. he was considered ok at launch. he was definitely gutted. but he was nerfed again and now he's absolutely pointless to play over everyone else. Unless you manage to be so good at him you can kind of make up for it. But this was also the "rise of the S tier Juno" moment as he was the main counter.

At least i would like to see strikers not be gutted into the trash because bronze players struggle with it. If she can't pressure through her ability to punish the enemy not spreading out. then she will be absolutely awful compared to ai.mi and you'd just do Luna and achieve what Vyce is doing now.

I never implied she should be exclusively nerfed, I implied her kit is flawed and just really difficult to balance. Because on the lower end she is broken/OP, while on the higher end she might be decent or good. A flat nerf is only going to make her worse (obviously), but she needs buff or changes to her kit to make up for the nerfs so she stays decent or good in higher ranks, but not completely stomping low ranks. I am not a high rank player, so I can't really speak for her performance there, but she is an absolute monster to deal with in low rank (I can somewhat deal with her for the most part, but my team usually can't).

And for X, he definitely have been nerfed into garbage tier. Without his best items I feel you can just ignore his existence. I don't recall having any issues playing against him.

Like i said. you'll always get characters like that. Noob stompers is a pretty common phrase in these kind of games. Solely because they are strong against low rank players. If it could be done without making a character worse or completely different then at the least no other game has managed to do it.

I foresee she'll get some nerfs. whether that'll make her X tier in mid-high is another story. I hope she doesn't get touched much tho. As it's impossible to balance a game for low tier and keep the mid+ happy and vice versa.

[LynX]

Originally posted by John:

Originally posted by LynX:

her stuff is useful but again. it's still not problematic. sure i can see the stun from her teleport. but at the end of the day look at the top strikers in the game and you can see she's kinda average.

it's certainly what your comp has an issue with but overall she is not the strongest striker in the game nor is she really high above everyone.

Agree to disagree.

I'm currently 7 points away from mid diamond, I've played a dozen games against her and it's not very hard to see that she's stronger than the other strikers. Especially when people understand what makes her strong.

She's not op op as she was before, but she's still stronger than most.

Definitely agree to disagree.

[76561199211411897]

she is not too strong you want her to be useless? u wanna talk about too strong, say hello to juliette in every single match past challenger steamrolling the lobbies. literally my matches come down to which teams juliette is better and if your team doesn't have her then pray.

[Betuor]

I wouldn't exactly say she's too strong, but I do feel like her kit does a lot of stuff that is useful and she's kind of ore useful than others. She simply does a lot.

[awanderingswordsman]

A lot of people also don't seem to notice that her uncharged ult is still really strong and that you aren't likely to dodge with Q. It's a much better ult than luna because of that and it can just occupy space better because you can hold it longer.

I think a solid nerf would just be to reduce the damage of her charged ult and reduce the range of the chain lightning procs. They can revert her cooldowns to compensate.

Ultimately, it's more important that your game is balanced at lower elo's than higher ones, no matter how frustrating that is for more dedicated players.