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A Warhammer game should be made for the masses of videogame players and attract more fresh blood rather than being fanservice only for existing Warhammer fans.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of developers believe that the "Warhammer logo" on the cover guarantees minimal sales, and they don't care about more. Like Warhammer fans will consume anything if it has the Warhammer name on it.
As a result, we have tons of Warhammer "one day" games , which no one even remembers, including its own developers/publishers.
I'd not really call this good enough to be fanservice for existing warhammer fans tbh.
CA showed what happens when you give a GW ip real love. Same with space marine.
Old world should be called just that -old world. In effect you have AoS as "Lord of the RIngs" and Old World as the "Silmalirion"
Doesn't confuse anyone, the reason fantasy ended was it wasn't profitable anymore and the writing was hella stale, there was also legal issues like proxies being made and sold that meant a lot of people didn't buy the GW official models. The playerbase essentially killed fantasy, I should know I was around at that time.
That's why AOS has everything be unique creations with unique names, no more elves, it's lumineth now. No more empire but cities of sigmar now, no more vampire counts but instead etc etc etc
So now they can take copycats to court.
It's not some basic fairytale like you've rationalised in your mind, there's reason things have gone this way.
Also tabletop AOS in 3rd ed and especially 2nd edition was so damn fun that it helped teach lessons that went on to improve 40k, their massive money earner.
As a setting, AOS is sick, from insanely cool realms to really interesting factions lore and origin wise, to the world being full of massive chest like things that everyone is fighting over, but instead of a magic dagger or some gold coins, they contain things like whole races or a god of destruction or a weapon that can flatten a city etc
The scale is huge, the story writing in the literature side of things is amazing.
AOS isn't a failure of a setting, it's really good.
Considering the insanely bad launch 1st ed was ( mad lads released it when there wasn't even any rules LOL ) and the salt of the fantasy fans still at it's height ( literally haven't got enough fingers for how many people I knew who set their army on fire out of an emotional meltdown, unstable mfers some of them were it's weird ).
It's surprising AOS has done this well, but no, it's an insanely cool setting.
We need more of it, done better, none of this half assed crap.
40k and AOS are what's best about GW.
Granted played quite a bit of 2nd but that was to help a FLGS out helping newbies get into the game.
The lore though is decent enough. Still prefer Fantasy by a country mile but I dig the more Discworld like approach.
It'd a setting that could and would do amazingly well across multiple genres.
AoS kart racing...heh.
I do take umbrage with the claim the fanbase killed Fantasy. That's just not true.
Been playing GW since...sheesh. 89? Around there. Storm of Chaos basically did, after that it was clear they didn't know what they wanted to do, or was afraid to support it mixed with he larger uptick in 40K.
They failed to support the Fantasy system allowing their base to get poached by things like Warmahordes (later Kings of War and the huge fantasy miniature boom). Instead of giving it the same attention and support as 40K.
GW failed to innovate, adapt, maintain, improve or fix Fantasy. It was basically left out to dry.
Allow me to shake your noble hand! Everything is exactly as you said.
I collect both 40k and Age of Sigmar miniatures and love how great they look next to each other. This is all instantly recognizable as «Warhammer» and it can't be confused with anything else.
Perhaps you are lucky, and I am not but no matter what now or fifteen years ago the entire “old fantasy community” nearby to me is not the kind of people with whom it is pleasant to communicate. The feeling of a closed sect, which is most afraid that neophytes will come and desecrate their sacred cow.
Too arrogant people with whom it is boring to talk about lore. And they also play boringly, constantly arguing about the half-inch on charge or the corner of the base not covered by the template.
I'm completely sure that Games Workshop became disillusioned with the “Fanatsy” after the resounding failure of the MMORPG Warhammer Online. I gave it a chance too and support it with my money for many months, but didn’t get much satisfaction. The most unfortunate thing: 90% of the players were not interested about setting; they did not see the difference with Warcraft. The rest were just busy scolding the game for not matching the lore.
Good to meet another fan, with good taste!
Yeah as much as there is to love about warhammer fantasy, the community was not one of it, there was some major mental issues with the fanbase, as is obvious in a group of people burning their armies in anger even tho you know... tabletop is a thing that can be played forward as the edition you love most doesn't just go away lol...
And there is a 8th ed that's fan made but still you don't see all these rose tinted people who love the memory of the game but don't remember any of the bad or why it died in the first place.
AOS put it's foot down straight away and with the help that a lot of the extremist fanboys of warhammer fantasy refused to play in spite, that left the really chill and sane people who ended up making AOS what it is today, a fun, accepting, friendly and warm community that just wants to have fun with a beer and some pretzels etc
Hell there is more in common with the LOTR wargame fanbase than with the warhammer fantasy one, the fanbase of GW's least talked about game is some of the nicest people out there too.
It's refreshing to have games with people who don't spend 10 minutes adjusting everything a quarter inch to make sure they got the most optimal positioning, pretend at being competitive in a hobby made and inhabited by casual gamers. (nothing wrong with being casual, but as someone who comes from actual competitive scenes where I've entered tournaments and money matched, in my case fighting games, I can recognise those who are competitive and have the friendly mentality of elevating their opponents so as to improve themselves by making better opponents, and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that is wargamings competitive scene that's full of corrupt TO's, cheaters and people who care more about winning than how they win).
AOS is a breath of fresh air.
My only complaint will be touched on in my next comment, as it's to someone else, someone who needs to actually think about what they said.
Here's where you are wrong, it's literally failed at different genres, we've got a card game that never kicked off and a hybrid game that is not pure rts but more like a moba, as well as a single player story driven rpg/rts mix that failed as well.
Oh and tempestfall the fps vr game that also failed.
Age of sigmar needs a proper base building rts, something akin to starcraft or dawn of war 1.
Observe first and then type mate, because your statement has hard factual evidence of it not working.
a) Total War Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Make a “historical” game based on game Campaign stories: Realmgates Wars, Malign Portens, Soul Wars and so on. For beginning can use the fantasy legacy models, including the Empire for the Cities of Sigmar for example, replacing them chronologically with more modern ones.
b) Vermintide 3. In Age of Sigmar, of course. I prefer another name: VerminDOOM!
Play as the Skaven, the enemies will be the reborn Ubersreik 5 who turned into the monsters — bosses of the game. Uncover the evil machinations of Drachenfels and save the Mortal Realms for Great Horned Rat.
The game should have the same grinding mechanics as Vermintide 2, but be predominantly single-player. Because I already play Vermintide with bots only. And it's exciting!
But I'd rather see a total war 40k, imagine how mind blown all the haters will be when they finally get their hands on the glory of grimdark that is 40k.
Who would your first campaign be as? :P
Instead of a vermintide 3 (I'm not sure I like the direction the devs taken with their games and some sync issues and other issues has made me wonder if they can pull of anything better than vermintide 1 and 2).
What would be cool is having an age of sigmar rts made by the age of empires 4 devs, not relic but the other one.
They invested so much into the map editor, painter having 4 factions they tried to flesh the game out with the conquest mode. It is clear they wanted to do so much but ultimately spread themselves a bit thin, in particular ensuring it was a enjoyable experience for console players.
AoS2 was one of the best wargames ever made. AoS3 was a step back in pretty much every conceivable way. From what its looking like, AoS4 is going to be much of the same. GW just doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about AoS from any metric that isn't just a platform to push models, which is ironic given that's what it was originally conceptualized as. Even the narrative has been largely butchered and left to the side, ironically suffering from much the same problems that Fantasy suffered from at its end, which was supposedly one of the major reasons they opted to do a settings reset in the first place.
The IP is just a mess, whereas on the flip side The Old World has been decently popping off and Vermintide & TWW, even with the latter's big mis-step that was III, largely revitalized love for the setting and has seen things like the re-ignition of the WHFRP TTRPG system and the like.
I've said for years, dating back to when I first gave AoS a chance after being bitter towards it for killing of "my" Warhammer, that AoS needs a "proper" video game to really have a chance to shine. Unfortunately, at this point, Its probably safe to say we'll never get that. The ones who give enough of a ♥♥♥♥ are more interested in old Fantasy and 40k, and if there is anyone out there who would commit the way it needs to be committed to, GW probably won't be interested in taking a chance on them anymore.
This is totally wrong. Games Workshop will grant any license rights to anyone — and for any purpose. This is exactly what they do all the time.
There is only one condition: «money first». Games Workshop doesn’t want “a percentage from profits later” or anything like that, they need money right now.
And think about it, if, as you claim, the old fantasy setting has “become more popular,” then this means that Games Workshop will demand more money for this license now. In fact, the existence of TWW is a consequence of the fact that SEGA bought a license for a dead setting much cheaper than it would have been for Warhammer 40,000.