Rogue Tower

Rogue Tower

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symphony Dec 7, 2023 @ 1:55am
missiles ballista only?
99% of my runs lose to missiles (around level 38-40). how do you deal with them?? I usually stack shield damage at front of the maze and keep armor + progress towers further back to deal with missiles, but there's so many and they're so quick they zoom past all my backline defenders. what do I do?
Last edited by symphony; Dec 7, 2023 @ 1:56am
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Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
wakasm Dec 7, 2023 @ 10:10am 
The only way to deal with them on Ballista only is to build further up the lane, closer to a spawn point and take out the spawner enemies using targeting options that will go for them first.

The game made two changes over various patches that gave the player less agency to deal with them.

First was the patch that makes building more towers of the same kind get way more expensive. It used to not be this way so you used to be able to get good university luck which would allow you to reasonably deal with missles by overbuilding balistas defensively (or offensively) since the base stats on them all would actually be reasonable.

Second, the game used to have some attack speed improvements and crit scaling cards that would give you a chance since Balistas have no AOE options, but those were removed through various patches, so now since you are capped on both (you can still do crit, but it's much more expensive than it waS), and thus, you can't overpower missiles after a certain amount of them spawn.

So your only chance is to start mapping out where the final points are going to be, and make sure you have a strong small killboxs towards where the spawning portals are going to end up. It's not too hard one 1 lane and 2 lane, but 3+ is gets stupid to do and you have to have decent lane luck or really really really ahead money wise to even be able to do so.

It's stupidily unbalanced, especially on harder end, because of these changes.

If there was any mod I'd use to cheat achievements (if they existed) would be one to choose the enemy types and ignore missiles.
Last edited by wakasm; Dec 7, 2023 @ 10:15am
symphony Dec 7, 2023 @ 10:40am 
Ugh that's unfortunate. I finished one run ballistas only single lane with a really convenient layout. But I'm struggling to reach past wave 40 again. All the videos I've seen (from about a year ago) don't have the same problem.

Do you think it would make sense to revert back to a old depot and play off of that? Found these older releases. https://steamdb.info/depot/1843761/manifests/
Last edited by symphony; Dec 7, 2023 @ 10:42am
wakasm Dec 7, 2023 @ 11:03am 
I'm super biased, as I reverted my review at launch from positive to negative after patch 1.0.14. It went from one of my favorite indy releases the year it came out to a game that I've grown to hate despite wanting to love it, and that is all because of the balance changes, the achievement nonsense, the APRIL FOOLS fiasco, and the general way the dev treats those who care about these things.

My basic viewpoint is they had a core of a good game with a lot of promise (all the good changes that came showed that there was a lot of room for improvement and potential).

You see that promise as it's still a good game in the honeymoon stages. 90% of players buy it, play it for like 20-50 hours, and enjoy their time and that's super reasonable. It's ugliness only rears itself when you try to tackle the hard achievements (which is really the only "progression" the game has after you unlock everything).

So, IMO, it might be fun to play anything before 1.0.14 just to see how the game played. At it's core, it plays the same... just... there was more player agency, especially with how you wanted to build your towers and the balance was just way more reasonable.

That was before the dev made balance change after balance change, added all the extra achievements, mob retuning, and made the game overall way harder. Back then, once you got the skills down, you could easily beat 3-lane ballistas pretty consistantly without a ridiculous amount of retries... it felt good and fun but reasonably challenging. You weren't punished for thinning your deck, you could crit stack, you could mana stack, you had attack speed at some point (attack speed might have been added then removed, I can't remember), university press your luck was more usable because you werne't punished so harshly building extra towers, you could build super towers more reasonably, etc. The only positive thing you were missing were the special tiles and trees.

I'm 90% sure my recount is correct, although I don't remember the exact order of the patches. I do remember I was like 3 achievements away from 100% the game ebfore they added the duplicated balista-only achievements, then later the quad lane ones which is where it just got stupid. You can see how they added them on true-achievements if you want to see the timeline of it all.

Back then the only achievement that didn't respect a players time was the 1,000,000 kills one. Now like 40+ of them do not.
Last edited by wakasm; Dec 7, 2023 @ 11:10am
symphony Dec 7, 2023 @ 3:26pm 
It's really a shame. You're right about the progression. I was pretty disappointed when I finished the upgrade tree, and thought "there's nothing left?"

I only just started playing so I only know the latest version, but it's sad to know dev is done with the game. I'm going to see if I can downgrade to 1.0.14, because it really does sound like it's a much better experience.
dhafvens Jan 1, 2024 @ 9:04pm 
The most powerful steup I've found - and one that can deal with the missle dudes in higher levels - is to super-buff your canons. In particular, getting the "ricochet" option in the armor tree and the two "+3 range" upgrades in the shield tree makes the canons ridiculously powerful. Give them the bleed/burn/poison buffs, get the buffs to increase max bleed/burn/poison, put up some frost towers to slow the monsters down, and watch the screen explode in colorful monster devastation.
resonance Jan 1, 2024 @ 9:10pm 
Originally posted by dhafvens:
The most powerful steup I've found - and one that can deal with the missle dudes in higher levels - is to super-buff your canons. In particular, getting the "ricochet" option in the armor tree and the two "+3 range" upgrades in the shield tree makes the canons ridiculously powerful. Give them the bleed/burn/poison buffs, get the buffs to increase max bleed/burn/poison, put up some frost towers to slow the monsters down, and watch the screen explode in colorful monster devastation.
Yeah but OP wants ballista only, so no cannons or frost towers.
helix2 Jan 4, 2024 @ 2:50am 
I could be wrong on this, but I get the impression there are other units that fire the missiles, at least there is a unit that says 'fire the missiles'. If this is the case, they may not be getting onto the map until they are passed your shield defenses? So you need some anti-shield ability closer to you base. I have that, and I seem to do okay? I seem to end up losing to the geometric shapes right now.
Grimmhammer Jan 14, 2024 @ 11:03pm 
Yeah. Missiles are an extreme pain in the ass. I was doing the Ballista + Obelisk achievement and kinda kicking ass until about round 5 or those bastards. If I could mod the game I'd just take the damn tanks out of the game.
wakasm Jan 15, 2024 @ 1:33am 
Originally posted by helix2:
I could be wrong on this, but I get the impression there are other units that fire the missiles, at least there is a unit that says 'fire the missiles'. If this is the case, they may not be getting onto the map until they are passed your shield defenses? So you need some anti-shield ability closer to you base. I have that, and I seem to do okay? I seem to end up losing to the geometric shapes right now.

From a math perspective, the issue with "Balistas Only" and these mob types is that there are:

- No ways to affect attack speed
- No ways to get area of effect damage

So you are limited to how many shots can fire, and when mobs spawn that spawn other mobs, at a certain point, even if every balista you had did 1 million dps per shot (instakill everything in one shot in some extreme example), you'd still potentially lose if you don't kill the mobs early in the lane.

Why? Even If you have 100 towers instakilling 100 mobs, you still lose if 500 mobs run by as the attack speed can't keep up.

This is a simplistic example of the core problem... but just to display the issue with the mob type and Ballista only as a goal. You can have all the defenses in the world, but if you let them spawn too many mobs, no matter what your damage is, you'll lose (and your towers are NOT instakilling most mobs and thus, this problem is compacted even more and needs less spawners to make you lose).

So you have to kill the spawners early on, which requires enough budget/upgrade pressure to allow you to do it. It's much easier to deal with in 1-lane and 2-lane, but triple and up, you aren't going to have as much freedom, especially in all lanes, and thus, requires a lot of luck to overcome these mob types.
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