Models that deform with bone movement

[Pickles]

I don't know what the method is even really called, nor what I would search for it... The only thing I can do is give an example... If you load c_bow_thief and bend the top or bottom bone, you can see how the end of the arm deforms, similar to how a real compound bow would. (Well, within reason. Go too far and it gets weird...) Since I cannot find a way to add a simple IK rig to a bow I'm trying to import (short of manually writing one using the .py script example) I'd like to try to do that mesh-deform method. Can anyone tell me what that is actually called so I might be able to find a tutorial for it?

[Pte Jack]

What, Blendshape (I believe they are called in Maya and 3DS max) and Shape Keys in Blender??? Where you use a slider like facial animations???

[Zappy]

No, Pte Jack, he's talking about procedural bones.

[Pte Jack]

Ohh, the old bake procedural bones (jiggles) in to ones that can be animated manually routine???

[Zappy]

No, procedural bones. Most (but not all) playermodel classes have a "helper bone" in their lower arms. Those are procedural bones. Here are the Scout's procedural bones as reference:

<helper> hlp_forearm_L bip_lowerArm_L bip_lowerArm_L bip_hand_L
<basepos> -9.99201e-016 -4.75779 -1.77636e-015
<trigger> 90 -1.09332e-015 3.97569e-016 1.59028e-015 0 0 0 0 0 0
<trigger> 90 0 89 0 0 65 0 0 0 0
<trigger> 90 0 -89 0 0 -65 0 0 0 0

<helper> hlp_forearm_R bip_lowerArm_R bip_lowerArm_R bip_hand_R
<basepos> -1.02912e-005 4.75777 -9.37782e-006
<trigger> 90 -1.98785e-016 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
<trigger> 90 0 89 0 0 65 0 0 0 0
<trigger> 90 0 -89 0 0 -65 0 0 0 0

[Pickles]

Vintage: I believe that is what I'm trying to find. I found this explanation:
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1295558
for procedural bones on the femscout model. Thank you.

But doesn't that only work if the model has a proper rig? When I load that c_bow_thief model, I don't have to do anything special to enable that deformation. From the above description, it would seem you need to have an IK rig for the model in order for such bones to work.

I hate to be the new guy asking this stuff, but information about modeling for source in blender is either outdated, inadequate, or geared specifically at TF2's new "easy import" nonsense... I have found literally zero tutorials as far as building IK rigs in blender for use in SFM... And I don't even know which community would help in that regard; SFM or Blender?

[Zappy]

Originally posted by TomatoGoatee:

But doesn't that only work if the model has a proper rig? When I load that c_bow_thief model, I don't have to do anything special to enable that deformation. From the above description, it would seem you need to have an IK rig for the model in order for such bones to work.

Uh, no? Procedural bones are compiled into the model. Do you have to apply an Inverse-Kinematic rig for jigglebones, also known as procedural bones, to work? Sorry for the sarcasm, I've had a bad day.

Originally posted by TomatoGoatee:

I hate to be the new guy asking this stuff, but information about modeling for source in blender is either outdated, inadequate, or geared specifically at TF2's new "easy import" nonsense... I have found literally zero tutorials as far as building IK rigs in blender for use in SFM... And I don't even know which community would help in that regard; SFM or Blender?

I don't think it's even possible to make an Inverse-Kinematic rig in Blender and export that for use in Source FilmMaker, and even if it is, I'm not sure it would be of that good quality, but I may be wrong.

[Pte Jack]

You can't, IK rigs created in blender don't export... The best you can do is create an animation of what you are trying to do and compile that into the model as a sequence or a separate model and add an include for that model in the qc. (Haven't got that far in my guide yet... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=245723825 but I plan to include it in the section I'm working on now.)

[Zappy]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

The best you can do is create an animation of what you are trying to do and compile that into the model as a sequence or a separate model and add an include for that model in the qc.

Uhhmm... Animationset > "Import > Animation..."?

[Pte Jack]

No, Import - Sequence... If an animation is compiled into the model as a sequence ($sequence "name" {fps xx}, it is a sequence... Same for $Include modelname in the qc.

[Zappy]

No, Import > Animation, which imports external SMD or DMX animations as animations.

[Pte Jack]

hmmm, I've tried that a few times, but I can never seem to get it to work.... Maybe since the updates it might work...

[Pickles]

Originally posted by Vintage:

Uh, no? Procedural bones are compiled into the model. Do you have to apply an Inverse-Kinematic rig for jigglebones, also known as procedural bones, to work? Sorry for the sarcasm, I've had a bad day.

Until about two weeks ago, I would not have understood what you said. I freely admit I'm brand-freakin'-new to modeling. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm trying to actually follow through with this hair-brained idea of modeling something for use in SFM, and then animate it, I would have given up a week ago and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even if you were sarcastic with your reply, I really, TRULY appreciate your reply to my question. Any help I can find is terrific. :)
Same goes for you, Jack. I've watched several of your videos on YouTube. While they haven't helped me in regard to this particular problem, they did help me in extracting and examining existing models.

As far as the jigglebones, yes. I understand what you're saying about them not requiring a rig. I guess the part I'm confused about is that these procedural bones don't show up in Blender in the decompiled model. At least they don't show up in the armature list, nor in edit, pose, or object modes... Do they get added to the model prior to export and then vanish into the SMD file or do you have to manually write a VRD file that orders a bone to contract as it rotates?

[Pte Jack]

I am finding that if a bone does not have mesh assigned to it at compile time, that studioMDL deletes the bone in the finished model. I believe to retain a procedural bone in the model, you need to follow this wiki. https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/$proceduralbones (which also links to this http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651604) problem is that because there are no physics in SFM, I don't know if a vrd file even works.

This is a snippet of MaxodS2D's qc for the enhanced Fem Scout from his source files...

// ---------------------------------------------------
// BODYGROUPS & OTHER MESHES
// ------------------------------------

$bodygroup head_items
{
studio "femscout_head_items.smd"
studio "femscout_head_items_nohat.smd"
blank
}

$bodygroup torso
{
studio "femscout_body_handbag.smd"
studio "femscout_body_nohandbag.smd"
}

$bodygroup pants
{
studio "femscout_legs.smd"
studio "femscout_legs_pants.smd"
}


$include femscout_bodygroups_release.qci

// ---- note he does add procedurals here for her ----

$proceduralbones femscout.vrd // thanks to Revzin for solving this

//------------------------------------------------------------------

[Zappy]

Procedural bones work in Source FilmMaker, whether they are helper bones (VRD-filtype-thingies) or jigglebones. If I'm not mistaking, the Source FilmMaker Hard-Ware Morphed Medic even has a helper bone or two. *Checks* Yep, it does. (Also, the tutorial thing for the helper bone thing for the FemScout was even designed specifically for Source FilmMaker support, if I'm not mistaking about that either.)

[Pte Jack]

I am such an idiot... Here is the reason why there are no procedural bones in the bow.

http://imgur.com/qb392Dq

The weapon is weight painted to perform the way it does.

Because of the weight painting, as you rotate the weapon bones 1 and 2, the mesh will stretch because of the weight. If you want to control that stretch, "I" would add 2 more bones to it at the upper and lower arm hinge point and re-weight them accordingly, then recompile the model (as a new name).

http://imgur.com/endsHi0