Source Filmmaker

Source Filmmaker

sonosublime Oct 12, 2016 @ 8:59am
My first major fight scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Hh68ZJRJ0

After many weeks, I've finially finished my first attempt at a long complicated fight scene in SFM. How does it look to you guys? Any tips on how I can improve this sort of animation in the future? Thanks.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
Kumquat [Velbud] Oct 12, 2016 @ 9:56am 
It's pretty epic. I would recommend looking at slow mos to soften the movement.
surfer171 Oct 12, 2016 @ 10:00am 
Ah fight scenes, my favorite :) as an avid fight scene watcher, here's my feedback:

I've got a stiff spine.

Spine, most important thing when in a fight scene to first show anticipation of action, balance and to allow the flow of energy as you swing your arms or weapons. Cause you see, everything in a fight scene follows an arc meaning when you swing, you make curve and that curve shows power in a punch or a kick. In your video, your spine's so stiff, no movement or whatsoever is seen and I don't see any simulation of strength when Genji kicks or punches the enemy. I might also want to point out that your kicks (emphasizing the spine) shifts your balance and if you picture yourself or look at any martial arts student, you're gonna fall no matter what and he's dead by now. Spine for anticipation, well… it's something that adds some life to your animation like when Genji used that bullet stopping power (and I've got a word about Diva's mech shooting too but later), instead of raising his arm simply like that, swing back that arm with the spine twisted a bit as in to harness the power then swing it like Phoenix wright wanting to shout objection at the court.

Anyone saw where the cameraman went?

Cameras… pretty ok for your first fight animation but let me give you some tips. Camera is important as it simulates the dynamic of the scene (I assume you know the importance of camera movements) be it to show how strong the punch is or to show how "evil-ly happy" Diva was as she shoots with a slow zooming in. I would suggest you to use like a camera helper model (available in your usermod if you typed helper) in order for you to plan camera movements and placements. For the part where Genji jumps down, try improvise it by making him do a front flip and add a gimbal camera to give that dynamic feeling to your audience as if they're in the animation watching him do spectacular jumps.

places everyone!

Choreographed fight scene is easy to look at when you know who strikes first and who gets knocked down. In this animation, I know you took inspiration from the matrix but try and think a bit, if you're to take turns to punch Genji and he's surrounded, he's gotta be in constant move, pushing, dodging and counter whatever thrown at him. So the people surrounding him, they've to do something at least like shuffling around, glanced at each other, crouched a bit low so they can pounce/tackle/uppercut him or trying to save their ally. Call it, background/misc animation to keep audience's eyes busy and making the animation less bland despite music (I'm not sure you placed them but assuming you did) helping out to liven up the animation.

we fight with flow

Fighting is all about flow, imagine drawing an arc and imagine that arc keeps moving until something stops. Flow keeps the momentum moving and if you keep it up, you can execute all sorts of combination of tricks and distraction to your enemies. Things that stops your flow if your attacks are blocked or you try to make it stop. When someone blocks your flow, they'll have an advantage or a window of opportunity to strike back and you need to get recover from it. When you try to stop your flow, you're also giving them an opportunity to strike you.

I wish I can talk more but all of these must have bore you a bit. I analyze things a lot and I always help myself with a good watch on some Jackie chan fight scene or a YouTube channel called Hyun's dojo, a stick figure animation website with their YouTube channel that dedicates itself to showcase all sorts of fight animation with the occasion community collab that doesn't involved fighting.
episoder Oct 12, 2016 @ 10:06am 
wtf. you picked a hell of a sequence. movement is a tad slow in some shots. some look a lil stiff. wooden. do spinal moves. indeed. it could use some smooth or more inbetweens to curve the motion in general. and you gotta add secondary motion. i dunno about the camera work. is that the replica of it? gotta watch it. i know some shots are. so...

not bad for a try of that scene.
Last edited by episoder; Oct 12, 2016 @ 10:12am
Marco Skoll Oct 12, 2016 @ 10:12am 
It is a good start - a darn sight better than many people's first attempts at a serious action scene.

However, seeing as you have asked for critique:

If I can be brutally honest, a scene from the Matrix films was perhaps not the best fight scene to have started with. The scene abuses the laws of physics extensively, so it's not necessarily teaching good lessons to learn and is quite unnatural to animate.

As far as the animation, it is somewhat robotic, primarily for a lack of Follow through or Overlapping action. (Look up the "12 basic principles of animation", if you're not already familiar with them).
The characters snap from keyframe to keyframe, with their entire body moving exactly in sync and with no real sense of inertia or weight.

You might also want to look at "anticipation"- although your characters tend to duck before jumping and the like (although the timing doesn't always seem quite right), the same hasn't necessarily been applied to drawing back before an attack or other "anticipation" of movements characters are about to make.

... and "secondary motion". For example, the mech is firing two gatling guns, but it stands absolutely rock-steady. There's no shake, no recoil, nothing. It needs something more to sell the power of the attack.
(Note that the original Matrix scene you're working from makes a deliberate point of showing the guns recoiling and reciprocating).

On a similar note, you often need to carry motions through more of the body (for example, a lot of the kicks don't carry the motion in how it would affect the character's balance) and include more minor movements - people don't stand completely still, so even just a shot of a character speaking or turning their head should show subtle movement throughout the whole body.
tf2player Oct 12, 2016 @ 11:08am 
this is great for your first try, but working on your camera work and general posing would have helped, try moving every bone of their bodies and remember no human is ever totally still like Genji was in a lot of these scenes

also it should have been Gordon Freeman rather than Genji, and Dva should have been Breen
psi onix Oct 13, 2016 @ 12:13am 
my thought is that it's unfinished.

what you have here is a tremendous start where you've "blocked" out all the movements and have all your shots organized and put together. Now you just need to go back into it, from the beginning, and add in more key frames to the movements which will fill out the motions and make everything more fluid. Doing so will not be hard at all once you have some more practice animating, especially since you've got all the initial tedious blocking completed.

In terms of the fight choreography, Matrix Reloaded is one of the finest action films ever made and this is easily one of it's best scenes. You have a map that fits the scene pretty well, so i think it would really be worth coming back to this project some day and i hope you do.

Speaking of maps... there used to be a Source mod game called "The Specialists" that had many maps that were directly modeled after locations from the Matrix films, including this one.
marty Oct 13, 2016 @ 2:28am 
use the 12 principles of animation (when the word principles is used you're probably thinking oh ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2muchcriticism4melel) but it's actually pretty easy, here you go, and when you do apply these it'll make your animation way better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haa7n3UGyDc&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8OtE60T8yU&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=2&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-SXLaQGg50&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=3&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8quCbt4C-c&index=4&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OxphYV8W3E&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=5&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQBFsTqbKhY&index=6&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_tZ9LhJD4&index=7&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjBHWw1TbP4&index=8&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BarOk2p38LQ&index=9&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfFj-VQKiAM&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=10&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7An0jukOkCI&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=11&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SplEuWp0Yw&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=12&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
Use video reference for what you are trying to achieve
Here is what i achieved in Maya, the attacker's motion is so smooth cuz i used reference
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=777166293
marty Oct 14, 2016 @ 4:50am 
Originally posted by de_dust2:
Use video reference for what you are trying to achieve
Here is what i achieved in Maya, the attacker's motion is so smooth cuz i used reference
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=777166293

it is smooth yes, but i think it needs a bit more arcs and follow through
surfer171 Oct 14, 2016 @ 4:53am 
Originally posted by fis:
use the 12 principles of animation (when the word principles is used you're probably thinking oh ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2muchcriticism4melel) but it's actually pretty easy, here you go, and when you do apply these it'll make your animation way better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haa7n3UGyDc&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8OtE60T8yU&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=2&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-SXLaQGg50&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=3&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8quCbt4C-c&index=4&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OxphYV8W3E&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=5&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQBFsTqbKhY&index=6&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_tZ9LhJD4&index=7&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjBHWw1TbP4&index=8&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BarOk2p38LQ&index=9&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfFj-VQKiAM&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=10&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7An0jukOkCI&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=11&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SplEuWp0Yw&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=12&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials

Might wanna correct you on some part. The most important here is anticipation, arches, timing and staging.

Anticipation is more to how do you want to show your audience that he wants to do something or winding up for a certain action like jumping or kicking.

Arch is to show you the flow and how all your energy and momentum carries on during a combo as I've explained earlier. Arch also shows how your movements are like a shorter arch shows somebody walking while longer arch shows them running fast.

Timing is the most important, like, one should never avoid. Shows everything like when will the guy react, does the guy have a slow reflex action. Everything in this world is about timing. Even me typing this is considered timing on how fast I type despite having to start at the same time.

Staging is basically how you position things in a fight scene. How does this item interacts with the fighter or how am enemy gets ready to take their turn to beat the living of the fighter.

Here's a three hours live stream on how to make a combo. Brought to you by well known animators in Hyun's dojo that specializes in fighting animation.

https://youtu.be/BLZehN6QQ0I
marty Oct 14, 2016 @ 4:55am 
Originally posted by surfer171:
Originally posted by fis:
use the 12 principles of animation (when the word principles is used you're probably thinking oh ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2muchcriticism4melel) but it's actually pretty easy, here you go, and when you do apply these it'll make your animation way better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haa7n3UGyDc&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8OtE60T8yU&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=2&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-SXLaQGg50&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=3&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8quCbt4C-c&index=4&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OxphYV8W3E&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=5&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQBFsTqbKhY&index=6&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_tZ9LhJD4&index=7&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjBHWw1TbP4&index=8&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BarOk2p38LQ&index=9&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfFj-VQKiAM&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=10&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7An0jukOkCI&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=11&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SplEuWp0Yw&list=PL-bOh8btec4CXd2ya1NmSKpi92U_l6ZJd&index=12&ab_channel=AlanBeckerTutorials

Might wanna correct you on some part. The most important here is anticipation, arches, timing and staging.

Anticipation is more to how do you want to show your audience that he wants to do something or winding up for a certain action like jumping or kicking.

Arch is to show you the flow and how all your energy and momentum carries on during a combo as I've explained earlier. Arch also shows how your movements are like a shorter arch shows somebody walking while longer arch shows them running fast.

Timing is the most important, like, one should never avoid. Shows everything like when will the guy react, does the guy have a slow reflex action. Everything in this world is about timing. Even me typing this is considered timing on how fast I type despite having to start at the same time.

Staging is basically how you position things in a fight scene. How does this item interacts with the fighter or how am enemy gets ready to take their turn to beat the living of the fighter.

Here's a three hours live stream on how to make a combo. Brought to you by well known animators in Hyun's dojo that specializes in fighting animation.

https://youtu.be/BLZehN6QQ0I

well yeah (but all the principles you should still know)
surfer171 Oct 14, 2016 @ 4:58am 
While it's true to learn the principles but SFM isn't capable of doing exaggeration , squash and stretch. Those are a lot more used in other animating media like 2D animation, clay animation and if possible other 3D animating software
marty Oct 14, 2016 @ 5:01am 
Originally posted by surfer171:
SFM isn't capable of doing exaggeration ,

lol
what
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwSpkaCO2k&ab_channel=JesseBaumgartner
Last edited by marty; Oct 14, 2016 @ 5:01am
surfer171 Oct 14, 2016 @ 5:04am 
If you're a motion editor animator, exaggerations are possible but for those who mainly use IK rigs, pretty much you can't make them stretch like making a leg stretched out from off scene like an old Mickey Mouse animation
marty Oct 14, 2016 @ 5:05am 
Originally posted by surfer171:
If you're a motion editor animator, exaggerations are possible but for those who mainly use IK rigs, pretty much you can't make them stretch like making a leg stretched out from off scene like an old Mickey Mouse animation

true, that ending part was really impressive though.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Oct 12, 2016 @ 8:59am
Posts: 36