Which bones are "unnecessary" and which are "necessary"?

[Mafwingo]

I have ported a model from SFM labs into Blender so that I can convert it to work as a skin in Garry's Mod. Everything's great except the problem is that my model (Mercy Witch >https://sfmlab.com/item/1619/) has 240 something bones but Garry's Mod only supports 128. As a noob to blender and SFM models, can anyone help me with some tips for which bones I can and can't delete since I apparently have to delete almost half of them?

[Misuune]

anything besides wings probably and body.
just some extras like pockets, belts blah blah blah.

you can try removing face bones if you want. also any jiggle bones that dont need to be used

[Marco Skoll]

When posting links, you need to not surround them with any brackets or the like.

This is really a question for the GMod community - we know how to get things into SFM, we don't have experience on how best to optimise them for GMod.

For a GMod player model, you'll need to swap in the GMod player model skeleton anyway, which will mean that you'll need to reassign the wings to the upper spine bone anyway (the skeleton won't support animating them). After that, axe all the facebones (Source should really use flex animations for faces), and then you'll have to start looking at how many bones are left after that, and start simplifying any jigglebone chains.

But yeah, ask the GMod community, not us.

[Mafwingo]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

When posting links, you need to not surround them with any brackets or the like.

This is really a question for the GMod community - we know how to get things into SFM, we don't have experience on how best to optimise them for GMod.

For a GMod player model, you'll need to swap in the GMod player model skeleton anyway, which will mean that you'll need to reassign the wings to the upper spine bone anyway (the skeleton won't support animating them). After that, axe all the facebones (Source should really use flex animations for faces), and then you'll have to start looking at how many bones are left after that, and start simplifying any jigglebone chains.

But yeah, ask the GMod community, not us.

To be fair this isn't a question about Gmod i was just saying that is my ultimate goal that this project is for. The question itself relates to an SFM model so I don't understand why it's an issue but thanks anyway.

[Marco Skoll]

Originally posted by Mafwingo:

To be fair this isn't a question about Gmod

It is a question about GMod, because once the model is in Blender, it doesn't matter where the model came from - it only matters where it needs to go.

It could have originally come from SFM, Fallout, Fortnite, DOA, Bioshock, etc, but it is now in Blender format; at this stage, you'll get the best and most accurate advice from the people who specialise in the game you want to get it into.

To put it another way - I practically know SFM's modelling limits backwards (and I've actually helped push those limits), but I honestly didn't know that GMod was limited to only 128 bones.
I knew older versions of Source were, but had you asked me before posting this thread, I would have assumed that GMod (as one of the few branches of Source still in active development) had been adapted to support 256 bones like SFM.

You want to be talking to the people who know this stuff, and that's going to be the GMod community, not the SFM community.

That's not a case of me being elitist, it's genuine advice - you will get more accurate and better advice by talking to the GMod community.

[episoder]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

It is a question about GMod, because once the model is in Blender, it doesn't matter where the model came from - it only matters where it needs to go.

You want to be talking to the people who know this stuff, and that's going to be the GMod community, not the SFM community.

It's generally Source porting. Only difference is the bone limit. We sure don't need a bunch of derailed gmodders here, but some things can pass. No need to type paragraphs about WTF. huh?

[Zappy]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

- I honestly didn't know that GMod was limited to only 128 bones. I knew older versions of Source were, - I would have assumed that GMod (as one of the few branches of Source still in active development) had been adapted to support 256 bones like SFM. -

I'm pretty sure that Garry's Mod is not limited to 256 bones, the Blender Source Tools just give a warning when exporting models with more than 128 bones, and StudioMDL might not support SMDs with more than that (though DMXes can have up to 256).

I may be wrong, of course, but I still think that it's only SMD meshes that are limited to 128 bones when compiling models.

Originally posted by episoder:

It's generally Source porting. -

Mafwingo said "a skin in Garry's Mod". I personally assume that that means "player model". And I also personally assume that Garry's Mod model-makers are more likely to know how to make properly-working Garry's Mod player models than Source Filmmaker model-makers are.

[Marco Skoll]

Originally posted by episoder:

Only difference is the bone limit.

There's more than that.

GMod also requires physics meshes & ragdoll constraints, player models generally have to be made to a specific skeleton (much less of a concern in SFM) and then there's things that SFM supports that GMod doesn't.

This isn't a case of me saying "HOW DARE THOU STRAY FROM THY DESIGNATED CORNER OF THE INTERNET, GMOD FILTH!", this is me saying "You'll get better answers over there".

[Mafwingo]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

Originally posted by episoder:

Only difference is the bone limit.

There's more than that.

GMod also requires physics meshes & ragdoll constraints, player models generally have to be made to a specific skeleton (much less of a concern in SFM) and then there's things that SFM supports that GMod doesn't.

This isn't a case of me saying "HOW DARE THOU STRAY FROM THY DESIGNATED CORNER OF THE INTERNET, GMOD FILTH!", this is me saying "You'll get better answers over there".

Guys the original question is simply "hey how do I know if bones are necessary or not" not "how do i do x, y, z, etc.. to make a gmod model." I already have the information. It was a simple BONE related question for an SFM model. I don't care where it's going, who's to say I'm not going to need to this for otheer games than Gmod? I could run into the same issue in the future. It's simply what's the best tool for knowing necessary and unnecessary BONES...

[Mafwingo]

Originally posted by Zappy:

Mafwingo said "a skin in Garry's Mod". I personally assume that that means "player model". And I also personally assume that Garry's Mod model-makers are more likely to know how to make properly-working Garry's Mod player models than Source Filmmaker model-makers are.

I couldn't find any forum for Gmod specific models so I chose the next best thing which was a forum for SFM models which I am using to convert.

[Marco Skoll]

Originally posted by Mafwingo:

I couldn't find any forum for Gmod specific models

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/18446744073709551615/?appid=4000
https://forum.facepunch.com/f/fbx

[Mafwingo]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

Originally posted by Mafwingo:

I couldn't find any forum for Gmod specific models

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/18446744073709551615/?appid=4000
https://forum.facepunch.com/f/fbx

This has nothing to do with Gmod models. Look at the very first Pinned message it says "This is not the place for help." I said I looked for GMod player model related forums and found nothing.

[Marco Skoll]

Originally posted by Mafwingo:

Look at the very first Pinned message it says "This is not the place for help."

I have. It's talking about generic problems and bugs - if GMod wasn't installing correctly, you couldn't download from the workshop, or the game kept crashing, that's the kind of help you shouldn't be asking for there.

When it comes to discussing the creation of GMod content, that's what that section is for. (No, it's not specifically about player models, but they fall under the general category of addons).

[Mafwingo]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

Originally posted by Mafwingo:

Look at the very first Pinned message it says "This is not the place for help."

I have. It's talking about generic problems and bugs - if GMod wasn't installing correctly, you couldn't download from the workshop, or the game kept crashing, that's the kind of help you shouldn't be asking for there.

When it comes to discussing the creation of GMod content, that's what that section is for. (No, it's not specifically about player models, but they fall under the general category of addons).

Ok i guess I'll go there then.