PBR on the source engine

[Adam]

Hi, i have heard that manu people say that source engine can handle the pbr in a different way from the usual, and i saw great result ! So i would like to know how to get a similar result. https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/922549557870558118/385D187958D79867C43D251AF00B870553D56BF4/

[Zappy]

Originally posted by Admgokussj4gold:

- So i would like to know how to get a similar result. -Image-

If what you would like a similar result to is the right half of the image that you linked to, the image already has text explaining part of that.
(The right half of that image "simply" has multiple [placed lights] set up in ways that make it look as though that [the visible/perceived light] bounces off of different surfaces, as well as having them a little tinted rather than just white.)

[episoder]

pbr is a buzzword. the real pbr does not work in source. it's a lil more advanced shader.

what you get is a fake. the main reason this technique exists is cause image based lighting does not work in source. i mean the envmap cannot be used as a diffuse term and the metalness aka phongalbedo does not tint the detailed environment reflections. that would get it a lil closer to a proper result.

the thing to do is seriously just faking the detail of light of an environment lightprobe by placing lamps at the bright spots in the 'virtual lightprobe' you're creating. it's not even precise. or physically correct. it's really just for the looks. it sure looks neat.

if somebody 'd figure out howto make sfm load a custom gameshader dll correctly it could be fixed, but... the correct interface source is somewhere inbetween version and not available. bummer.

[episoder]

i wish i had the proper shader sources to work on it. been a while i tried this. i know 07 is too old. asw shader base just explodes the whole system. should i try the 13 version? bunch of crap. D:

[Adam]

Originally posted by Zappy:

Originally posted by Admgokussj4gold:

- So i would like to know how to get a similar result. -Image-

If what you would like a similar result to is the right half of the image that you linked to, the image already has text explaining part of that.
(The right half of that image "simply" has multiple [placed lights] set up in ways that make it look as though that [the visible/perceived light] bounces off of different surfaces, as well as having them a little tinted rather than just white.)

let me explain better... i would like to get a similar result, on another model, with the vmt files, i want metal, that looks metal. when i try to use phong and things like these, i get an ugly result. For example this is the model,

https://imgur.com/a/Cm3ppk6

and i would like the red part seems more metalic, btw ignore the missing textur

[Zappy]

Originally posted by Admgokussj4gold:

- i want metal, that looks metal. -

That doesn't really have anything to do with "PBR" that isn't achievable without it.

Originally posted by Admgokussj4gold:

- i would like the red part seems more metalic, -

Depending on what you mean, you may want to look up $EnvMap.

[Kumquat [Velbud]]

I think this is more of a question to BlueFlytrap since he created a debased texture that handles map lighting like PBR would.

This is the video showing his process for a lot of his work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of8D61JO4fM

I am familiar with Kyle and a few others using it, but this is generally the process for the development of texture that can potentially behave with Blinn like attributes.

Envmap is a texture, and as much as I have tested.

PBR in source is unachievable due to it being extremely realtime. Lights in source are simpler to load in SFM because they have a modular interaction with objects, that is it can affect a region without doing anything. Although I would try arguing that light is a model itself, I will leave you with a comparative. https://sfmlab.com/item/2577/

[Adam]

Originally posted by Admgokussj4gold:

- i would like the red part seems more metalic, -

Depending on what you mean, you may want to look up $EnvMap. [/quote]
i always use these cubemaps, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=363777336 but i don't understand how to make the best effect from them, i write the code "$envmap" "cube_envmap" on the vmt files, then add overide materials, and add string, and add $envmap and it works, but it doesn't seem a good effect.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Velbud:

I think this is more of a question to BlueFlytrap since he created a debased texture that handles map lighting like PBR would.

This is the video showing his process for a lot of his work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of8D61JO4fM

I am familiar with Kyle and a few others using it, but this is generally the process for the development of texture that can potentially behave with Blinn like attributes.

Envmap is a texture, and as much as I have tested.

PBR in source is unachievable due to it being extremely realtime. Lights in source are simpler to load in SFM because they have a modular interaction with objects, that is it can affect a region without doing anything. Although I would try arguing that light is a model itself, I will leave you with a comparative. https://sfmlab.com/item/2577/

Thank you!

[Kumquat [Velbud]]

Just note to everyone, you are not wrong the cubemaps are indeed an easier way of creating a metallic effect. The problem is the line drawn between a metallic effect and a plastic one.

This OP was asking for the specific kind of method that Flytrap made and a few others followed along with him on. Cubemaps work too, but go back to my previous statement for the problem.

[episoder]

Originally posted by Velbud:

Just note to everyone, you are not wrong the cubemaps are indeed an easier way of creating a metallic effect. The problem is the line drawn between a metallic effect and a plastic one.

This OP was asking for the specific kind of method that Flytrap made and a few others followed along with him on. Cubemaps work too, but go back to my previous statement for the problem.

the colored specular thing? i dunno how it works. i'm a shader person, not this multipass texture waste. very expensive. the lighting method is still just faking the envmap details while providing the color thru albedotint.

let's hope i get to compile some shader and the 07er shader dll with the win8.1 sdk. this old code base is a pain in the backside. i'll stop when i got something to work tonight. still got a bunch of hours to fill til game is on. :)

[Kumquat [Velbud]]

Originally posted by episoder:

Originally posted by Velbud:

Just note to everyone, you are not wrong the cubemaps are indeed an easier way of creating a metallic effect. The problem is the line drawn between a metallic effect and a plastic one.

This OP was asking for the specific kind of method that Flytrap made and a few others followed along with him on. Cubemaps work too, but go back to my previous statement for the problem.

the colored specular thing? i dunno how it works. i'm a shader person, not this multipass texture waste. very expensive. the lighting method is still just faking the envmap details while providing the color thru albedotint.

let's hope i get to compile some shader and the 07er shader dll with the win8.1 sdk. this old code base is a pain in the backside. i'll stop when i got something to work tonight. still got a bunch of hours to fill til game is on. :)

Let me know how your dll goes. As far as the texture being expensive...it's more expensive to set up rather than its own rendering. I mean, shadless lights FTW in the end.

[episoder]

what? the rendering is not expensive? you render stacked models. those are 2 or 3 times. this is massive overdraw, executing the shaders, and writing and blending to the framebuffer. hell.

and well... the dll is not going as i thought. slowly downgrading the compilers and sdks. i think it may compile then, when i reached vs2005 and and it will still not work. xP

[Kumquat [Velbud]]

Originally posted by episoder:

what? the rendering is not expensive? you render stacked models. those are 2 or 3 times. this is massive overdraw, executing the shaders, and writing and blending to the framebuffer. hell.

and well... the dll is not going as i thought. slowly downgrading the compilers and sdks. i think it may compile then, when i reached vs2005 and and it will still not work. xP

Hmm, comment on wht exactly you are expect the Source engine to do versus what it is actually doing. The reason is because if there is something that is used ina completely unrecognizeable format, SFM will not run it period. If it is a mixture of familiar components, like say the debased texture, then it is a lot more recognizable.

Also, last I checked about the specular, this was done with one model with variables to replace the dependencies on multiple layers. I may be wrong, I am basing this off of the video I shared.