Any way to use both FK and IK rigs at the same time?

[Kharos]

As the title suggests, would it be possible to seamlessly use both FK and IK without tediously having to unbind and rebind the IK rig whenever you want to alternate between the 2? It makes animating painful sometimes. And yes, I know about the hidden controls thing, but that doesn't actually allow you to control the bones!

[Capt Fuzzy]

As far as I know, there is no "built-in" way to use both simultaneously...
I heard a good while ago that someone might have been working on a script to atleast partially do this, but I don't know if they ever managed to complete it and get it working or not. I haven't seen any news on it at all in months now...

[Zappy]

Do keep in mind that forward-kinematic and inverse-kinematic rigs (FK and IK rigs) are basically complete(?) opposites. But whether or not someone has made a custom rig that does both (as Capt Fuzzy sort of mentioned), I don't know.

[Kharos]

Damn... oh well, thanks anyway :)

[Marco Skoll]

Not exactly.

With the way SFM works, you'd end up with what in programming terms is called a circular loop.
You'd have the rig controlling the model's bones, and the model's bones controlling the rig.
This is an instant paradox (a bit like "Johnny B Goode" is in Back to the Future. Chuck Berry first hears it because Marty goes back in time and plays it, so actually no-one ever wrote it), and SFM can't handle that.

This is why SFM disables the bones when a rig is applied.

If you know the basics of SFM's Python coding, you can however build some limited FK functions into IK rigs - you can put "handles" at the shoulders/hips that you can lock the hands/feet to; this allows you to animate sweeping motions from the shoulder/hip.

You still don't get FK control of the elbows or knees, but it does provide a certain level of hybrid control. There's a version of rig_biped_simple on the workshop that already works this way, but for anything that needs a different rig you'll probably need to learn to code your own.

[Capt Fuzzy]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

Not exactly.

With the way SFM works, you'd end up with what in programming terms is called a circular loop.
You'd have the rig controlling the model's bones, and the model's bones controlling the rig.
This is an instant paradox (a bit like "Johnny B Goode" is in Back to the Future. Chuck Berry first hears it because Marty goes back in time and plays it, so actually no-one ever wrote it), and SFM can't handle that.

This is why SFM disables the bones when a rig is applied.

If you know the basics of SFM's Python coding, you can build some limited FK functions into IK rigs - you can put "handles" at the shoulders/hips that you can lock the hands/feet to; this allows you to animate sweeping motions from the shoulder/hip.

You still don't get FK control of the elbows or knees, but it does provide a certain level of hybrid control. There's a version of rig_biped_simple on the workshop that already works this way, but for anything that needs a different rig you'll probably need to learn to code your own.

This is probably why I've not heard of any script being made that actually worked like most people would expect it to...

[episoder]

Originally posted by Capt Fuzzy:

As far as I know, there is no "built-in" way to use both simultaneously...
I heard a good while ago that someone might have been working on a script to atleast partially do this, but I don't know if they ever managed to complete it and get it working or not. I haven't seen any news on it at all in months now...

you mean this thing?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=661850284

it is partial. and it is pretty much complete. there's no point adding more to it.

[Capt Fuzzy]

Originally posted by episoder:

Originally posted by Capt Fuzzy:

As far as I know, there is no "built-in" way to use both simultaneously...
I heard a good while ago that someone might have been working on a script to atleast partially do this, but I don't know if they ever managed to complete it and get it working or not. I haven't seen any news on it at all in months now...

you mean this thing?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=661850284

it is partial. and it is pretty much complete. there's no point adding more to it.

Yeah, this is what I was referring to, I forgot that you were the one working on it, sorry about that, I didn't want to credit the wrong person on it, but I saw the word "experimental" and figured that it was still a work in progress...

[episoder]

what? credits? give it to the guys that asked for it and the guy who had the lagless finger rig idea. was totally not my thing. x)

and yes, the functionality is not native animation rigging. if you twist wrong axises it can murder your workflow. hence why it's a experimetal method. but it should work. it's not wip.

[Kharos]

Originally posted by episoder:

what? credits? give it to the guys that asked for it and the guy who had the lagless finger rig idea. was totally not my thing. x)

and yes, the functionality is not native animation rigging. if you twist wrong axises it can murder your workflow. hence why it's a experimetal method. but it should work. it's not wip.

Would it be possible for a quick convert of a different custom rig to function the same way? The biped simple desnt really work with the models I use...

[episoder]

quick? depends how much bone names i gotta re-type. i can try. i'd need the model and it working flawless in sfm tho.

[Kharos]

Originally posted by episoder:

quick? depends how much bone names i gotta re-type. i can try. i'd need the model and it working flawless in sfm tho.

Sent a friend request, I'll provide you with the stuff and whatnot

[Capt Fuzzy]

Originally posted by Chaplain Kharos:

Would it be possible for a quick convert of a different custom rig to function the same way? The biped simple desnt really work with the models I use...

I'd recommend Auto-Rigger, mainly because rig_biped_simple is meant for Valve models and not all of the models that I use are Valve models.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=444750868
It's not 100% perfect, it sometimes doesn't get the bone assignments exactly right, but this is easily edited to correct them. For the most part, I've not found any models that it absolutely won't work on yet, so it is a useful tool.
I've even used it to rig a couple of quadropeds as well...

[Kharos]

Originally posted by Capt Fuzzy:

Originally posted by Chaplain Kharos:

Would it be possible for a quick convert of a different custom rig to function the same way? The biped simple desnt really work with the models I use...

I'd recommend Auto-Rigger, mainly because rig_biped_simple is meant for Valve models and not all of the models that I use are Valve models.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=444750868
It's not 100% perfect, it sometimes doesn't get the bone assignments exactly right, but this is easily edited to correct them. For the most part, I've not found any models that it absolutely won't work on yet, so it is a useful tool.

Thanks but I already know of this script. Infact, the models came with a rig to begin with and I also tried making mine with autorigger. However, this still doesn't solve the problem of being unable to use both FK and IK at the same time tho.

[Marco Skoll]

Originally posted by Chaplain Kharos:

Would it be possible for a quick convert of a different custom rig to function the same way? The biped simple desnt really work with the models I use...

(Most) rigs are not especially difficult to write or modify, and it is a skill that's worth learning, as the auto-rigger can't handle all models, or simply doesn't implement useful features*.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SFM/Making_custom_rigs

* For example, I often build rigs so the foot pivots from the ball of the foot rather than the ankle. This is often simply how weight is distributed anyway, but it's particularly useful for digitigrade models such as dogs, cats or my half-dragon character.
(Contrary to what a lot of people think, such creatures do not have "backwards knees", they just have a raised ankle. It's like a human walking on their toes).

[Kharos]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

Originally posted by Chaplain Kharos:

Would it be possible for a quick convert of a different custom rig to function the same way? The biped simple desnt really work with the models I use...

(Most) rigs are not especially difficult to write or modify, and it is a skill that's worth learning, as the auto-rigger can't handle all models, or simply doesn't implement useful features*.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SFM/Making_custom_rigs

* For example, I often build rigs so the foot pivots from the ball of the foot rather than the ankle. This is often simply how weight is distributed anyway, but it's particularly useful for digitigrade models such as dogs, cats or my half-dragon character.
(Contrary to what a lot of people think, such creatures do not have "backwards knees", they just have a raised ankle. It's like a human walking on their toes).

Good stuff. Thanks.