IS IT POSSIBLE TO COPY FACE FLEXS (IN BLENDER) FROM ONE MESH TO ANOTHER?

[GORYGIRL1996]

I AM NOT TYPING LIKE THIS TO YELL I HAVE EYE ISSUES SO I USE THIS TO SEE THE LETTERS BETTER. ALSO, I DON'T MEAN TO BE RUDE BUT CAN WE PLEASE NOT HAVE ANY CAPS WAR OR PEOPLE TELLING ME ABOUT OTHER METHODS TO MAKE THE SCREEN/TEXT BIGGER, I AM SORRY BUT I GET THAT TOO MUCH ENOUGH AS IT IS I JUST THOUGHT I'D MENTION THAT AGAIN I DO NOT MEAN TO BE RUDE. ^_^ TY FOR UNDERSTANDING. :)

BUT ANYWAYS I KNOW I'VE POSTED THIS HERE BEFORE MILLIONS OF TIMES BUT I WANT SOME HELP AGAIN I'VE GOTTEN A LITTLE BETTER AT BLENDER SO OW THAT I KNOW HOW TO SORT OF MESS AROUND WITH SMD'S (MAINLY HL2 MESHES AND L4D2 MESHES) (AS SAID IN THE TITTLE, I WANNA LEARN AND FIND OUT IF IT'S POSSIBLE) TO COPY THE FACE FLEX'S FROM SAY A L4D1/2 MESH AND PASTE THEM ONTO A HL2 MODEL AND NOT HAVE THE HL2 MODEL SCREWED UP LOOKING AFTERWORDS.

IF THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE THEN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO MAKE FACIAL FLEX'S (OR "SHAPE KEYS" IF U WILL.) WITCH EVER IS EASIER. I JUST CANNOT STAND THE HL2 MODEL'S FACIAL FEATURES IN MY PERSONAL OPINION (AND NO OFFENSE TO VALVE OR ANYTHING.) BUT I THINK THERE NOT REALISTIC AND SUCK.) LIKE FOR ONE THERE MOUTHS DON'T OPEN UP AS WIDE AS NORMAL HUMANS DO, AND 2 THERE EYES DON'T GET WIDE ENOUGH, AND 3 THERE EYE BROWS DON'T RAISE OR DO THE EVIL OR ANGRY LOOK WELL ENOUGH. AND THERE SMILES AREN'T THAT GREAT EITHER AND THEY REALLY DON'T GET TO SHOW MUCH OF THERE TEETH THAT MUCH SOMETIMES (I HAVE SEEN PPL MAKE FUNNY GMOD PICS WITH THERE MOUTHS WIDE OPEN TEETH SHOWING AND ALL BUT I' HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT IN SFM.) AND P.S IF I HAVE TO DO THIS IN MAX RATHER THEN BLENDER SO BE IT WITCH EVER IS EASIER, I JUST SUGGESTED BLENDER BECAUSE I HAVE HAD IT FOR A LONGER PERIOD OD TIME.

THANKS FOR READING AND HAVE A GOOD DAY/NIGHT. ^_^

[marty]

nobodies going to help you if they have to read like this, atleast format it.

[Marco Skoll]

NO. SHAPE KEYS CAN ONLY BE TRANSFERRED BETWEEN MESHES WITH IDENTICAL STRUCTURE. WHILE THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME SHAPE, (ALTHOUGH THE MORE DISSIMILAR, THE LESS LIKELY IT IS TO TRANSFER WELL), THEY DO NEED THE SAME NUMBER OF VERTICES, ETC.

[GORYGIRL1996]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

NO. SHAPE KEYS CAN ONLY BE TRANSFERRED BETWEEN MESHES WITH IDENTICAL STRUCTURE. WHILE THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME SHAPE, (ALTHOUGH THE MORE DISSIMILAR, THE LESS LIKELY IT IS TO TRANSFER WELL), THEY DO NEED THE SAME NUMBER OF VERTICES, ETC.

AH DANG IT! :( THANK U FOR TELLING ME THIS ANYWAYS, IT MEANS A LOT....I WON'T MESS WITH IT ANYMORE, BUT, WHAT SHOULD I DO ABOUT THIS? IS THERE ANOTHER WAY TO FIX THIS? WHAT ABOUT THIS? I ALSO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION, I FOUND THIS L4D2 FACE FLEX QC THING COULD U TELL ME IF IT WOULD WORK INSTEAD? (AND IF IT DOSE PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO USE IT IF POSSIBLE ^_^.) http://gamebanana.com/gamefiles/2243 I AM NOT THE BEST AT MODELING SO EXCUSE MY LACK OF INFO LOL. ^^

IF THAT THING, (THE QC FILE METHOD.) DOSE NOT WORK, THEN PLEASE TELL ME IF THERE'S ANOTHER WAY. :) I HATE TO ASK THIS BUT I HATE THOSE FACIAL FEATURES AND I WANNA KNOW IF I CAN CHANGE EM. LIKE I SAID B4. ^_^

AGAIN I THANK U DEARLY REGARDLESS OF THE ANSWERS I KNOW IT'S NOT U IT'S MODELING IT CAN BE A PAIN! LOL XD


ALSO, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION WITCH IS SORT OF UNRELATED TO THIS, BUT IN A WAY IT IS RELATED.....SAY IF I CREATED A CUSTOM MESH IN BLENDER LIKE A NECKLACE, HOW WOULD I GIVE IT THE "RIG_BIPED SIMPLE" RIG? SINCE IT'S NOT HUMAN I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.

[Marco Skoll]

THAT QCI FILE IS JUST PRE-BUILT CODE THAT WILL ALLOW THE COMPILER TO BUILD CONTROLS FOR (A VERY SPECIFIC FORMAT OF) FLEXES THAT ALREADY EXIST IN A VTA FILE*.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE IS NO EASY SHORTCUT TO MAKING FACE POSING, WHICH IS THE MAIN REASON WHY YOUR REQUESTS FOR ENHANCED FACE POSING WERE MET WITH SUCH RELUCTANCE.

EVERY FLEX HAS TO BE MADE AND ADJUSTED MANUALLY - EACH NEEDS TO BE CREATED/SELECTED IN TURN IN BLENDER, THEN THE MESH HAS TO BE ADJUSTED TO THE RIGHT SHAPE FOR THAT FLEX.
(FLEXES/SHAPE KEYS ARE A SUBSET OF WHAT IS CALLED VERTEX ANIMATION, WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL VERTICES OF A MESH ARE KEYFRAMED - HENCE WHY MESHES HAVE TO BE TOPOLOGICALLY IDENTICAL TO TRANSFER SHAPE KEY DATA. THIS IS DIFFERENT TO BONE ANIMATION, WHERE VERTICES HAVE BEEN "WEIGHTED" TO A VIRTUAL SKELETON. EACH HAS ITS ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES).

* SUCH A QCI FILE ISN'T EVEN NECESSARY WITH DMX EXPORTS. THAT SAID, MAKING A SET OF FLEXES TO MATCH THE SET THAT QCI FILE EXPECTS WOULDN'T BE A BAD STARTING POINT (EVEN WITH A DMX EXPORT), AS SFM CAN IMPORT DEFAULT LIP-SYNC TABLES FOR THESE FLEX CONTROLLERS.

[Pipann]

WHAT YOU COULD DO IS FIND A LIST OF EXISTING FLEXES OF A CHARACTER AND USE IT AS REFERENCE FOR YOUR OTHER CHARACTER. YOU'D STILL HAVE TO MAKE THE FLEXES YOURSELF BUT YOU'LL AT LEAST HAVE A PLACE TO START.

[episoder]

i never tried to set it up with some highres meshes, but... blender has a cage/mesh deform modifier. maybe if you'd use the bill face flexes to deform gregori's face you may get there to approximately 'copying' it.

[GORYGIRL1996]

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

THAT QCI FILE IS JUST PRE-BUILT CODE THAT WILL ALLOW THE COMPILER TO BUILD CONTROLS FOR (A VERY SPECIFIC FORMAT OF) FLEXES THAT ALREADY EXIST IN A VTA FILE*.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE IS NO EASY SHORTCUT TO MAKING FACE POSING, WHICH IS THE MAIN REASON WHY YOUR REQUESTS FOR ENHANCED FACE POSING WERE MET WITH SUCH RELUCTANCE.

EVERY FLEX HAS TO BE MADE AND ADJUSTED MANUALLY - EACH NEEDS TO BE CREATED/SELECTED IN TURN IN BLENDER, THEN THE MESH HAS TO BE ADJUSTED TO THE RIGHT SHAPE FOR THAT FLEX.
(FLEXES/SHAPE KEYS ARE A SUBSET OF WHAT IS CALLED VERTEX ANIMATION, WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL VERTICES OF A MESH ARE KEYFRAMED - HENCE WHY MESHES HAVE TO BE TOPOLOGICALLY IDENTICAL TO TRANSFER SHAPE KEY DATA. THIS IS DIFFERENT TO BONE ANIMATION, WHERE VERTICES HAVE BEEN "WEIGHTED" TO A VIRTUAL SKELETON. EACH HAS ITS ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES).

* SUCH A QCI FILE ISN'T EVEN NECESSARY WITH DMX EXPORTS. THAT SAID, MAKING A SET OF FLEXES TO MATCH THE SET THAT QCI FILE EXPECTS WOULDN'T BE A BAD STARTING POINT (EVEN WITH A DMX EXPORT), AS SFM CAN IMPORT DEFAULT LIP-SYNC TABLES FOR THESE FLEX CONTROLLERS.

THANK U IF I HAVE TO, I'LL TRY LEARNING TO DO IT MYSELF. BUT AFTER I CREATE THE NEW FLEX'S WHAT DO I DO? I KNOW U SAID SOMETHIGN ABOUT "DMX'S" DO U ECPORT THE MESH AS A DMX AND ADD IT TO HIS NORMAL QC FILE LIKE SAY "MONK_REFERENCE.SMD" TO BE REPLACED WITH "MONK_REFERENCE.DMX"? IS THAT WHA TU DO?

[GORYGIRL1996]

Originally posted by Pipann:

WHAT YOU COULD DO IS FIND A LIST OF EXISTING FLEXES OF A CHARACTER AND USE IT AS REFERENCE FOR YOUR OTHER CHARACTER. YOU'D STILL HAVE TO MAKE THE FLEXES YOURSELF BUT YOU'LL AT LEAST HAVE A PLACE TO START.

THANK U, I KIND OF THOUGHT OF THAT AND I KIND OF DIDN'T LOL I'LL HAVE TO TRY THAT. MAYBE TAKE A FEW PICS FOR REFERENCES AND HAVE EM SIDE BY SIDE. ^_^

[GORYGIRL1996]

Originally posted by episoder:

i never tried to set it up with some highres meshes, but... blender has a cage/mesh deform modifier. maybe if you'd use the bill face flexes to deform gregori's face you may get there to approximately 'copying' it.

I WILL TRY THAT AS WELL, COULDN'T HURT, I'LL HAVE TO GET USE TO IT THOUGH, AND LEARN IT MORE. ^_^ THIS IS ALL NEW TO BE. XD HOW WOULD I USE THIS MODIFIER THEM? ^^ N BILL OR GRIGORI & AFTER THAT THEN WHAT?

[Pte Jack]

IF YOUR MODEL HAS BONES IN THE FACE YOU CAN POSE THE BONES INTO THE THE POSTION YOU WANT TO MAKE A FLEX FOR, THEN IN THE ARMATURE MODIFIER< YOU CAN APPLY IT AS A SHAPEKEY. YOU WILL HAVE TO CREATE A NEW ARMATURE MODIFIER EACH TIME YOU APPLY THE MODIFIER AS A SHAPEKEY.

[marty]

YEAH WHAT PTEJACK SAID LIKE YEA

[GORYGIRL1996]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

IF YOUR MODEL HAS BONES IN THE FACE YOU CAN POSE THE BONES INTO THE THE POSTION YOU WANT TO MAKE A FLEX FOR, THEN IN THE ARMATURE MODIFIER< YOU CAN APPLY IT AS A SHAPEKEY. YOU WILL HAVE TO CREATE A NEW ARMATURE MODIFIER EACH TIME YOU APPLY THE MODIFIER AS A SHAPEKEY.

I DON'T KNOW ANYTHIING ABOUT THAT, BUT THE MODEL I WANNA EDIT IS A HALF LIFE 2 MODEL AND HES THE PRIEST "FATHER GRIGORI" IDK IF HE HAS FACE BONES OR WHAT IDK HOW TO CHECK FOR THAT. WOULD U LIKE FOR ME TO SEND U ONE OF HIS REFERENCE SMD'S? TO SEE WHAT HE IS?

SAME GOES FOR THE L4D2 MODEL I WANNA COPY THE FACE FLEX'S FROM, IDK IF HE HAS BONES OR WHAT EVER THE OTHER THING IS FOR FACE CONTROLS.

[Pte Jack]

I THOUGHT WE WENT THROUGH ALL THIS WHEN YOU WANTED BILL ENHANCED. THE PROCESS IS THE SAME FOR THE FATHER GROGORI MODEL. GO BACK AND READ THROUGH THE RESPONSES YOU GOT ON YOUR 100+ BILL REQUESTS.

[Marco Skoll]

Originally posted by GORYGIRL1996:

I KNOW U SAID SOMETHIGN ABOUT "DMX'S" DO U ECPORT THE MESH AS A DMX AND ADD IT TO HIS NORMAL QC FILE LIKE SAY "MONK_REFERENCE.SMD" TO BE REPLACED WITH "MONK_REFERENCE.DMX"?

DMX FILES HAVE THE FLEX CONTROLLERS BAKED INTO THE FILE ITSELF, RATHER THAN NEEDING A SEPARATE VTA FILE LIKE SMD FILES. (HENCE SIMPLIFYING THE PROCESS OF WRITING A QC FILE).

BY DEFAULT, BLENDER AUTOMATICALLY GENERATES THE CONTROLLERS, BUT YOU CAN ALSO USE ADVANCED MODE FOR FEATURES LIKE WRINKLE MAPS AND CORRECTIVE SHAPES. (WHICH SMD DOESN'T SUPPORT AT ALL).

THE ONLY REAL NIGGLE OF USING DMX RATHER THAN SMD FORMAT IS THAT THE COMPILER CAN'T AUTOMATICALLY CULL BONE WEIGHTS FOR DMX FILES. (TO BE HONEST, YOU SHOULD DO THE CULLING MANUALLY ANYWAY, BUT SOMETIMES IT'S EASIER TO BE LAZY AND LET THE COMPILER DO IT, SO I OFTEN STILL USE SMD TO EXPORT MODELS THAT DON'T NEED FLEXES*).

* OR OFTEN WHEN I'VE MADE FLEXES IN BLENDER WHICH I DON'T WANT/NEED IN SFM (I SOMETIMES MAKE FLEXES FOR MODELLING PURPOSES) AND CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DISABLE THEM IN A DMX EXPORT.

Originally posted by GORYGIRL1996:

IDK IF HE HAS FACE BONES OR WHAT

ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT IN BOTH CASES. VALVE DON'T TEND TO USE BONE ANIMATION FOR FACES.

(GENERALLY, MOST MODELS FOR SFM THAT HAVE FACE BONES HAVE THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY PORTED FROM ANOTHER ENGINE).

[GORYGIRL1996]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

I THOUGHT WE WENT THROUGH ALL THIS WHEN YOU WANTED BILL ENHANCED. THE PROCESS IS THE SAME FOR THE FATHER GROGORI MODEL. GO BACK AND READ THROUGH THE RESPONSES YOU GOT ON YOUR 100+ BILL REQUESTS.

I'M SORRY I JUST DON'T REMEMBER, I KNOW U DID SAY STUFF ABOUT TI I JUST CANNOT REMEMBER WHAT, I KNOW, I KNOW I'M SORRY, I KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH IT B4 BUT 1 IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO AND 2 I STOPPED FOLLOWING THE POST WHEN OTHER PPL GOT RUDE WITH ME (NOT INCLUDING U) AND 3 TBH I HAVE POSTED SO MANY I COULD NOT FIND EM ALL PLUS I DELETED SOME OF THEM TO SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING.

Originally posted by Marco Skoll:

Originally posted by GORYGIRL1996:

I KNOW U SAID SOMETHIGN ABOUT "DMX'S" DO U ECPORT THE MESH AS A DMX AND ADD IT TO HIS NORMAL QC FILE LIKE SAY "MONK_REFERENCE.SMD" TO BE REPLACED WITH "MONK_REFERENCE.DMX"?

DMX FILES HAVE THE FLEX CONTROLLERS BAKED INTO THE FILE ITSELF, RATHER THAN NEEDING A SEPARATE VTA FILE LIKE SMD FILES. (HENCE SIMPLIFYING THE PROCESS OF WRITING A QC FILE).

BY DEFAULT, BLENDER AUTOMATICALLY GENERATES THE CONTROLLERS, BUT YOU CAN ALSO USE ADVANCED MODE FOR FEATURES LIKE WRINKLE MAPS AND CORRECTIVE SHAPES. (WHICH SMD DOESN'T SUPPORT AT ALL).

THE ONLY REAL NIGGLE OF USING DMX RATHER THAN SMD FORMAT IS THAT THE COMPILER CAN'T AUTOMATICALLY CULL BONE WEIGHTS FOR DMX FILES. (TO BE HONEST, YOU SHOULD DO THE CULLING MANUALLY ANYWAY, BUT SOMETIMES IT'S EASIER TO BE LAZY AND LET THE COMPILER DO IT, SO I OFTEN STILL USE SMD TO EXPORT MODELS THAT DON'T NEED FLEXES*).

* OR OFTEN WHEN I'VE MADE FLEXES IN BLENDER WHICH I DON'T WANT/NEED IN SFM (I SOMETIMES MAKE FLEXES FOR MODELLING PURPOSES) AND CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DISABLE THEM IN A DMX EXPORT.

Originally posted by GORYGIRL1996:

IDK IF HE HAS FACE BONES OR WHAT

ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT IN BOTH CASES. VALVE DON'T TEND TO USE BONE ANIMATION FOR FACES.

(GENERALLY, MOST MODELS FOR SFM THAT HAVE FACE BONES HAVE THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY PORTED FROM ANOTHER ENGINE).

I WAS WONDERIGN WHAT THEY WERE FOR LOL TY I SHALL KEEP THAT IN MIND, MAYBE I'LL EXPERIMENT WITH THAT A LITTLE BIT WHEN I FIGURE ALL THIS OUT XD.