is there any way to force SFM to render more then 8 shadowed lights?

[DefraggedSSD]

I am making a huge poster and i really need the shadows for it. I dont mind performance drops because of it.
the current setup has these lights
4 streetlights
1 laptop screen light
4 muzzle flash lights (disabled 1 or 2 of those)
1 drone light up light (disabled its just to make the drone visible in the dark scene)
1 phone screen light
and
2 car headlights

[surfer171]

Nope, I don't think there's any possible ways unless you go to another 3D software then you can do so. How bout you show a screenshot of your scene, some lights don't need shadows by the way. At least a screenshot, we can recommend what light to disable shadow.

[Marco Skoll]

No. While it would be possible to increase the limit with access to SFM's source code, we do not have access to SFM's source code.

(Bear in mind that Source only normally allows 1 projected texture at a time, so SFM is really quite generous with 8).

There are some ugly tricks to make 8 lights seem like more than 8 lights, but although I hate to be a tease, I've got to take the dogs out before it rains, so I can't explain those right now.

[DefraggedSSD]

Originally posted by surfer171:

Nope, I don't think there's any possible ways unless you go to another 3D software then you can do so. How bout you show a screenshot of your scene, some lights don't need shadows by the way. At least a screenshot, we can recommend what light to disable shadow.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=876719430&fileuploadsuccess=1

there it is.

[surfer171]

Hmm… disable shadows on the laptop, the gun and the headlight of the van that isn't obstructed by the engineer's leg.

[DefraggedSSD]

Originally posted by surfer171:

Hmm… disable shadows on the laptop, the gun and the headlight of the van that isn't obstructed by the engineer's leg.

I disabled in that picture. Drone light. Vehicle lights. 2 gun lights.

[episoder]

is this a poster? looks like you're overcomplicating. it's not about real light count. think about it visually. with priorities. the laptop screen shines backwards. i don't see the phone. do they need to cast shadows? not really. they are passive. do they have any visual value at all? barely. they are buried in the shot. you gotta re-layout those to make them more visible. give them value. also do you need 4 precise streetlight shadows? use a good centered 'subject' topdown or maybe the closest 2 or 3. you can simplify those. you could use a good placed volumetric and put the drone in it. bam... godrays. visual and a spy behind a cloak effect. put a glowing particle on it and you have a cheap control lamp. the rest of the street lights are your fillers tho. place them well. the car headlights seem to have barely influence if you limit the angles and make them cast blurry shadows. you could use just 1 light with both of the lights in the gobo. it's a cheap gimp job. now what seems really important is how you f*cked up the muzzle flashes. they are freakin' large. i don't think that you need more then 3 since you only have 3 subjects in the shooting part. depending on their angles and what you cast the light on, you really gotta do the shadows tho. i mean... those lit thru wheelhouses of the van look damn stupid. or not?

and ... end of rant here. :)

[DefraggedSSD]

Originally posted by episoder:

is this a poster? looks like you're overcomplicating. it's not about real light count. think about it visually. with priorities. the laptop screen shines backwards. i don't see the phone. do they need to cast shadows? not really. they are passive. do they have any visual value at all? barely. they are buried in the shot. you gotta re-layout those to make them more visible. give them value. also do you need 4 precise streetlight shadows? use a good centered 'subject' topdown or maybe the closest 2 or 3. you can simplify those. you could use a good placed volumetric and put the drone in it. bam... godrays. visual and a spy behind a cloak effect. the rest of the street lights are your fillers tho. place well. the car headlights seem to have barely influence if you limit the angles and make them cast blurry shadows. you could use just 1 light with both of the lights in the gobo. it's a cheap gimp job. now what seems really important is how you f*cked up the muzzle flashes. i don't think that you need more then 3 since you only have 3 subjects in the shooting part. depending on heir angles and what you cast the light on, you really gotta do the shadows. i mean... those lit thru wheelhouses of the van look damn stupid.

and ... end of rant here.

I get where you are coming from, I only just discovered gobo and volumetric light stuff. thing is, i have a scene in my head and i create that. this is why there are so many unnecesary details like the phone. i also dont act like the world is mine. i make a scene and i just work with that scene, if something cant go somewhere because of an item being there i adjust the action, not the item. It might not be the most proffessional way of doing things, but i enjoy it.

[episoder]

okay. a scene in your head. me too. i just slightly modified yours. it looked awesome. :)

just some more. what if you remove the light from he scout's back and tweak the laptop screen to do a more saturated rim?!? a whole 'nother visual to bring the laptop to live. shiny in the dark.

also. what if you remove the streetlight shadows? entirely overpower the shadows with directed muzzle flash shadows. could be nice on the spot. an actual microsecond shot.

now... i just noticed... you barely have shadows. i actually don't even know why you're asking for more. you gotta use them better imo. :)

[DefraggedSSD]

Originally posted by episoder:

okay. a scene in your head. me too. i just slightly modified yours. it looked awesome. :)

just some more. what if you remove the light from he scout's back and tweak the laptop screen to do a more saturated rim?!? a whole 'nother visual to bring the laptop to live. shiny in the dark.

also. what if you remove the streetlight shadows? entirely overpower the shadows with directed muzzle flash shadows. could be nice on the spot. an actual microsecond shot.

Thanks,
how do you mean more saturated rim? you mean as in shine another light on the laptop to give it some bloom?
I dident want to remove any street lights because 1 they all lit people and objects, (for example the light on scout is a street light) and you cant just turn off a street light off IRL.

[episoder]

no. the direction is the opposite. your laptop screen light gotta shine in the scout's face. based on the angle, that way you get more rim lighting on his right side. not that tiny lil spot on his left ear. and it makes the laptop look like it's actually working and actively lighting.

and you don't wanna think if you can turn on or off a streetlight. you gotta build your visual not the environment. nobody sees that light behind the camera angle. nobody cares about that. build you picture. you can just put him in corner or dark. or maybe another volumetric. whatever you like.

[Marco Skoll]

Like I said earlier - there are dirty hacks. This (terrible) scene is on an unlit map, but uses just one light:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=876856533
However, I've set the shutter speed very low and moved the light around, so that SFM's motion blur samples render that one light from four different positions.

This isn't normally particularly practical (certainly not for an animation*), but it is a technique that can be used if you desperately need more lights.

* Perhaps not impossible though - this 360 degree lighting uses just one light:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lrytNG2EvU
Although this is very hastily done and shows flicker (because I couldn't be bothered to spend ages rendering it at high samples), I suspect that could be solved by adjusting settings.

[episoder]

wow. cool hack. could this use fractional timing? 6 light positions in one frame? does that accumulate? this buffer gotta have some use. :)

[Marco Skoll]

I've never actually tried anything that complex in an animation* (as it would have to do that *every* frame, which would mean a lot of copying and pasting to build it up to a full scene), but it should work, up to the limits of the granularity of the fractional timing, anyway.

* The video example is just spinning the light once per exposure with a very wide lighting angle (I don't have an exact number, but enough less than 180 degrees that the shadowmapping still worked), and then (slightly) cheating by not showing you a blind spot on the ceiling. Still, it'd be possible to fill in that dark spot with another light if you really needed, and doing complete spherical shadowed lighting with just 2 lights is pretty good as far as SFM is concerned.

[Kumquat [Velbud]]

I'd honestly go with the axial light approach; to put it visually, imagine you have a cube and you attach lights on each corner or edge. This you use if you have no light at all, not even environmental light already created in a map.

[Marco Skoll]

That isn't exactly an answer to a shortage of shadowed lights.

Like I say, these are dirty hacks to be used in the event of a shortage of lights. They're not something I'd use as a standard approach.