MV's game design is DEEPLY flawed at its core and beyond

[Infevo]

Love the game but there is a lot of work to be done before this game can be taken serious. Nintendo didn't want Smash to become competitive. But the player base pushed for it because the system mechanics just make sense. Here on the other hand we have a strong push for competitive gameplay while the game does not even nail the fundamentals. I am not even talking about individual character balance. Many design decisions in MV are highly questionable.

1) Mages/Tanks should not have quick normals. But they are quicker than some assassins.

2) Mage hurtboxes are too small considering how fast Bugs/Tom move and how big their hitboxes are. Either they have to get their movement options reduced because they are faster than most characters or they should have normal hitboxes and slower movement speed. The way these two work are not much different than bruisers and assassins but they have additional advantages that make them so good which is the speed, their screen control, their utility, their hitboxes, their hurtboxes while still having ridiculous combo/setplay potential.
=> Balance 101 (?) - you cannot give a character everything and wonder that people keep asking the same questions on the forums and then leave after not getting answers. What is the reasoning behind Bugs' or T&J's design?

3) There are no repercussions for spamming big damage moves. For example. Why is Shaggy allowed to dragon punch and then immediately spike? I do understand that whiff punishing should not be as easy in a fast paced brawler but right now it all feels super random. Game has to be slowed down in certain aspects or it will end up appealing to pros and casuals exclusively while there is pretty much no incentive for intermediate players to grow. Some of the most frustrating moves to deal with are quick (low startup), have huge 360° hitboxes, deal more damage and knockback while still being safe (low recovery) and no cooldown.

4) Tanks are much harder to ring out (much more ridiculous with defensive perks) than low health characters but still have big moves + armor to keep swinging. On lower and intermediate level of competition they aren't less effective in killing fast as assassins, bruiser and mages. It is beyond me that I manage to juggle Iron Giant successfully after each of my air options with a vertical assassin close to the top screen and he just lives no matter what @150 dmg while I get comboed off the ground with a couple of normal hits and die.

5) The game is not transparent enough about true combos. It feels a lot like the devs have not even expected there were any dealing more than 40 dmg and people keep coming up with zero2death- or 100+dmg-combos. The training mode (lab) does not give enough insight and the display just keeps refreshing the moment your combo breaks and you hit with another move. Everything in that regards feels like a closed first beta now. And the proof of concept seems to still be missing.

6) Everyone keeps repeating this is supposed to be a 2v2 focused game. I don''t see it. 2v2 is pure chaos. Too much is going on on the screen (again, no transparency). Especially when you have 4*T&Js on screen it is a pure mess. There is not only a lack of team mechanics to justify the push for 2v2 but there is also plenty of situations where you actually ruin your team mate's combos, bait them or just force them play around your own game. I also don't see any punishment for "feeding" or "afk". And I think it is super annoying that the winning team is allowed to swap characters and you have to go through the whole selection process for perks TWICE each round. Some stages benefit certain characters and are selected at random. Some stages are too small for 2v2. Too big stages stretch the view so much when the fight is spread across the area that makes everything look tiny on the screen making pixel perfect combos impossible to execute.

7) Characters have too much stamina. Trying to hit some of the faster characters with small hurtboxes is hard enough. But being allowed to spam dodges for so long makes the stamina system neglectable. Introduce a penalty. Every dodge that did not successfully evade an attack should cost more stamina. Same for offensive dodges. If you dodge in the air for juggles but your consecutive attack misses make it cost more stamina. To fix 3) one could also introduce a stamina cost for special moves instead. Why are you allowed to spam dodge anyway without repercussions? Dodge should have RECOVERY so you can bait and punish it, a cooldown or just much higher costs attached. It is just not fun fishing for hits against opponents that spam dodge whenever you come near them. I am not complaining being dodged, so you don't misunderstand. But there is barely any skill involved right now and it is just not fun from a design perspective swinging all day on the ground and missing everything because one dodge follows the next because you can spam it.

8) I miss the transparency on the number of remaining air options. Can't be bothered counting. Just like I don't want be counting dmg and hit fatigue.

9) Move priority is missing in this game. Strong moves have to be lower priority because they are spamable in this game or they have to be prioritized but easily punished on whiff,

10) Arbitrary cooldowns on projectiles (and in general). Some projectiles can be spammed. Others have huge cooldowns. Considering Batarang covers Batman horizontally so well and gives him a free hit confirm while being spamable isn't reasonable to me. Especially since he has so good vertical kill pressure once they jump. And if he hits with Batarang he can follow up on reaction with grappling hook. On top of that it is a combo tool and weakens (debuff). I don't want to focus on Batman but this just shows how inconsistent the concept is in general.

11) Perks are not thought through AT ALL.
=> +% dmg perks don't make ANY mathematical sense. 5% of 20 dmg (no move does that dmg) is 1 additional dmg. They are not worth it. I deal at least the same dmg if I don't use them but go for frost debuffs and ignites instead. Especially frost debuff on projectile hit is super strong as you have a much easier time dealing with faster characters, juggles and finishing your kill combos. Damage reduction makes EVEN LESS sense mathematically (except on tanks).. It reduces damage by 4% which deal 4 to 10 damage. Why would anyone want to waste a slot on this if you can have a triple jump instead (or 3 grey health on projectile hit e.g.)?

12) I think having two systems in place to interrupt combos based on damage received overcomplicates things. We have increased knockback the more damage was dealt already and this is a core mechanic which by itself makes combos break sooner. Why introduce hitstun decay for every attack on top of that? Again, this speaks to the point of lack of transparency. It is just frustrating that you can never reliably commit yourself to a combo after a character already received damage. Dealing with the increased knockback is challenging enough when juggling. I would say that breaking a combo after the same attack is reoccuring for the third time should be fine. Even a "guts" mechanic making characters receive one dmg per hit after a certain point would do. But it's just a pain in the butt having to take two intransparent multiplicatively scaling mechanics into account.

This thread is not supposed to be a crybaby post like most on these forums. Again, I love this game and even supported it with the 100€ founders pack. I want this game to succeed as much as possible and especially appeal to a broad range of players in between casual gamers and pros. But I fail to see the vision of the game designers.

How do they want us to play the game?
What in particular is supposed to make this game interesting and enjoyable?
Where is the depth?
And in what direction is this title going in the future?

[Scratch Hare]

Hmm...
#1 and others - I played League before, so I do take these roles as recommendations rather than an accurate representation of a character's statistics (except that Assassins take more damage).

Heard of League things like "Tank Annie", "AD Kennen", "AP Yi"? These are fun, sub-optimal builds that go against their roles. Same here, players can violate the recommendations and form their own playstyles, like say zoning Superman, but know that it might not be optimal.

#3 - This is one of the things that makes Multiversus way less like Smash though, so I would disagree on the devs nerfing this one. They already have the 2-2-2 restriction when jumping, which is intuitive and they will probably stick to it rather than add freefall state or extra delay to such moves. But we'll see if they nerf it.... though Shaggy's not exactly high tier at the moment, so I do not see them doing it.

Does this make the game feel broken? Yes. More fun? To me, yes. The way DNF Duel or some jank old game is more fun because they are broken and didn't get patched.

#6 - I can follow it properly, even an Evo match that doesn't have a large arrow and outline on your player, but I suppose this is not everyone. Whereas in Smash (even Ultimate) I lose my character in a 2v2 or 1v1v1v1 all the time.

This game is indeed built with 2v2 in mind. There are barely moves in Smash that buff/involve an ally, and why 2v2 tournaments of Smash force friendly fire because you cannot do anything about Fox shooting you all day from the edge of the stage while a tank keeps the opponent away. Meanwhile, this game was designed to have no friendly fire with projectiles and other powerful moves having cooldowns.

#7 - Ok so this one, I think this is like the Melty Blood Type Lumina "Shield" situation. The dev's probably going to be stubborn on this for one season then agree that the mechanic is overtuned in the end and add more restriction to it.

It is true though that in high level play (like in Evo or Multiversus Weekly) they are barely even seen doing dodges. They just know when to do it so there's not as much "spam", since dodges get baited and punished.

Again, similar to Melty Blood TL. In high level play, people hardly use Shield randomly let alone Shield followups, because they've developed a multi-layered option select tech to beat Shield and most of its followups.

That said, I do propose to buff the base (full stamina) dodge, while consuming about 30-50% more stamina than the current consumption (refunding some stamina on a successful dodge).

I am confident they will tweak this eventually. Taz was always a terrible low tier character, but they did acknowledge that his tornado made the game feel terrible at the lower levels.

#8 - I don't feel like this is needed, it's easy to count the 2-2-2 or 3-2-2. That said, a toggle would be great.

#12 - I had assumed hitstun decay was only linked to the "stale moves" system? That said, I think extra knockback while taking damage to stop combos is enough of a combo breaker in platform fighters, it doesn't need more combo limiters (again, with the exception of stale moves).

Publicado originalmente por Knee:

Publicado originalmente por Spideroth:

Smash is an awful competitive game.

which one?

If you asked Sakurai, all of them are awful competitive games except Ultimate, where he just gave up and let the competitors have their fun by allowing "enough" combos. (Nintendo legal team has other ideas of course.)

[ExtraSwagance[FR]]

Git gud.

[Velorace]

Publicado originalmente por Infevo:

Epic epic epic loving giving constructive things with a ton of ♥ a-lotOver ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Hey infevo, First, thanks of all --- I would like to say thank you for being the second person to stay here on these forums and offer proper, constructive criticism for this game.

There is really alot of children and mans-in-black dressing and vesting themselves as children while playing this game. I mean, Smash and BH has really done alot of harm on us, so, we really feel damaged by all these things that are called fighting games... xD

So first, I would like to say thank you for your kind words, your modality, the way you portray yourself, the way you speak and you also construct/say respond to criticism. I was just reading over you on the comment sections and I was like, Hell --- I need alot to learn with you, lol...

Most of the time all of us fail in being respective, caring and loving with each others... When it comes to a confront on that scale, or else, or whatever.

I will really have to learn a thing or two with you... It seems.

Also i'm getting some serious issues of Schyzophrenia, or better as others (me) like saying... Some issues with "excess of Air", in my mental and mentality (and also modality...)

So it's a bit difficult for me, to earthen up for some reason, so my discourses may not be as good as "yours" if you are reading it xD

I'm not really balanced on my elementals... Yet, as you seem yet to be... Or are to be :/

But anyway, things will get better in time.

Better excess of positive elementals rather than excess of negative oriented positive elementals xD

Oh sad...

Anyway, here is the thing and the stuff, I would like to say...

[Cottoneyes]

One thing I can agree with is the perks but mostly character perks.

Overall I like the idea of perks and having your character have a extra playstyle option, but some perks just "complete" the character in some cases. In others they just feel like nothing much is gained from them.

Bug's kiss is a good example as without the perk it's pretty much a useless move on it's own so it's a requirement to even run that move, but the tunnel just makes a strong tool stronger without it needing it in the first place. Character perks should feel like side grades to functional moves rather than a slot that makes the character fully functional.

Some characters dont have it as hard with them but other you really need to build around.

[Captainn]

Publicado originalmente por Infevo:

Love the game but there is a lot of work to be done before this game can be taken serious. Nintendo didn't want Smash to become competitive. But the player base pushed for it because the system mechanics just make sense. Here on the other hand we have a strong push for competitive gameplay while the game does not even nail the fundamentals. I am not even talking about individual character balance. Many design decisions in MV are highly questionable.

1) Mages/Tanks should not have quick normals. But they are quicker than some assassins.

2) Mage hurtboxes are too small considering how fast Bugs/Tom move and how big their hitboxes are. Either they have to get their movement options reduced because they are faster than most characters or they should have normal hitboxes and slower movement speed. The way these two work are not much different than bruisers and assassins but they have additional advantages that make them so good which is the speed, their screen control, their utility, their hitboxes, their hurtboxes while still having ridiculous combo/setplay potential.
=> Balance 101 (?) - you cannot give a character everything and wonder that people keep asking the same questions on the forums and then leave after not getting answers. What is the reasoning behind Bugs' or T&J's design?

3) There are no repercussions for spamming big damage moves. For example. Why is Shaggy allowed to dragon punch and then immediately spike? I do understand that whiff punishing should not be as easy in a fast paced brawler but right now it all feels super random. Game has to be slowed down in certain aspects or it will end up appealing to pros and casuals exclusively while there is pretty much no incentive for intermediate players to grow. Some of the most frustrating moves to deal with are quick (low startup), have huge 360° hitboxes, deal more damage and knockback while still being safe (low recovery) and no cooldown.

4) Tanks are much harder to ring out (much more ridiculous with defensive perks) than low health characters but still have big moves + armor to keep swinging. On lower and intermediate level of competition they aren't less effective in killing fast as assassins, bruiser and mages. It is beyond me that I manage to juggle Iron Giant successfully after each of my air options with a vertical assassin close to the top screen and he just lives no matter what @150 dmg while I get comboed off the ground with a couple of normal hits and die.

5) The game is not transparent enough about true combos. It feels a lot like the devs have not even expected there were any dealing more than 40 dmg and people keep coming up with zero2death- or 100+dmg-combos. The training mode (lab) does not give enough insight and the display just keeps refreshing the moment your combo breaks and you hit with another move. Everything in that regards feels like a closed first beta now. And the proof of concept seems to still be missing.

6) Everyone keeps repeating this is supposed to be a 2v2 focused game. I don''t see it. 2v2 is pure chaos. Too much is going on on the screen (again, no transparency). Especially when you have 4*T&Js on screen it is a pure mess. There is not only a lack of team mechanics to justify the push for 2v2 but there is also plenty of situations where you actually ruin your team mate's combos, bait them or just force them play around your own game. I also don't see any punishment for "feeding" or "afk". And I think it is super annoying that the winning team is allowed to swap characters and you have to go through the whole selection process for perks TWICE each round. Some stages benefit certain characters and are selected at random. Some stages are too small for 2v2. Too big stages stretch the view so much when the fight is spread across the area that makes everything look tiny on the screen making pixel perfect combos impossible to execute.

7) Characters have too much stamina. Trying to hit some of the faster characters with small hurtboxes is hard enough. But being allowed to spam dodges for so long makes the stamina system neglectable. Introduce a penalty. Every dodge that did not successfully evade an attack should cost more stamina. Same for offensive dodges. If you dodge in the air for juggles but your consecutive attack misses make it cost more stamina. To fix 3) one could also introduce a stamina cost for special moves instead. Why are you allowed to spam dodge anyway without repercussions? Dodge should have RECOVERY so you can bait and punish it, a cooldown or just much higher costs attached. It is just not fun fishing for hits against opponents that spam dodge whenever you come near them. I am not complaining being dodged, so you don't misunderstand. But there is barely any skill involved right now and it is just not fun from a design perspective swinging all day on the ground and missing everything because one dodge follows the next because you can spam it.

8) I miss the transparency on the number of remaining air options. Can't be bothered counting. Just like I don't want be counting dmg and hit fatigue.

9) Move priority is missing in this game. Strong moves have to be lower priority because they are spamable in this game or they have to be prioritized but easily punished on whiff,

10) Arbitrary cooldowns on projectiles (and in general). Some projectiles can be spammed. Others have huge cooldowns. Considering Batarang covers Batman horizontally so well and gives him a free hit confirm while being spamable isn't reasonable to me. Especially since he has so good vertical kill pressure once they jump. And if he hits with Batarang he can follow up on reaction with grappling hook. On top of that it is a combo tool and weakens (debuff). I don't want to focus on Batman but this just shows how inconsistent the concept is in general.

11) Perks are not thought through AT ALL.
=> +% dmg perks don't make ANY mathematical sense. 5% of 20 dmg (no move does that dmg) is 1 additional dmg. They are not worth it. I deal at least the same dmg if I don't use them but go for frost debuffs and ignites instead. Especially frost debuff on projectile hit is super strong as you have a much easier time dealing with faster characters, juggles and finishing your kill combos. Damage reduction makes EVEN LESS sense mathematically (except on tanks).. It reduces damage by 4% which deal 4 to 10 damage. Why would anyone want to waste a slot on this if you can have a triple jump instead (or 3 grey health on projectile hit e.g.)?

12) I think having two systems in place to interrupt combos based on damage received overcomplicates things. We have increased knockback the more damage was dealt already and this is a core mechanic which by itself makes combos break sooner. Why introduce hitstun decay for every attack on top of that? Again, this speaks to the point of lack of transparency. It is just frustrating that you can never reliably commit yourself to a combo after a character already received damage. Dealing with the increased knockback is challenging enough when juggling. I would say that breaking a combo after the same attack is reoccuring for the third time should be fine. Even a "guts" mechanic making characters receive one dmg per hit after a certain point would do. But it's just a pain in the butt having to take two intransparent multiplicatively scaling mechanics into account.

This thread is not supposed to be a crybaby post like most on these forums. Again, I love this game and even supported it with the 100€ founders pack. I want this game to succeed as much as possible and especially appeal to a broad range of players in between casual gamers and pros. But I fail to see the vision of the game designers.

How do they want us to play the game?
What in particular is supposed to make this game interesting and enjoyable?
Where is the depth?
And in what direction is this title going in the future?

This guy didn't play Smash when it first came out. All good things take time, and this game has the same soul as the first Smash.

[BillHicks]

I see you snuck crying about 2v2 in your post. it's a 2v2 focused game. Suck it up.

[Infevo]

Publicado originalmente por Cottoneyes:

One thing I can agree with is the perks but mostly character perks.

Overall I like the idea of perks and having your character have a extra playstyle option, but some perks just "complete" the character in some cases. In others they just feel like nothing much is gained from them.

Bug's kiss is a good example as without the perk it's pretty much a useless move on it's own so it's a requirement to even run that move, but the tunnel just makes a strong tool stronger without it needing it in the first place. Character perks should feel like side grades to functional moves rather than a slot that makes the character fully functional.

Some characters dont have it as hard with them but other you really need to build around.

I think perks are a great addition. In fact, they do to an extent what they are supposed to do. If you find a perk set with a nice synergy (synergizing with your character's kit, your team mate and the perks themselves), then perks can be really interesting exploring new playstyles. But there is just a plethora of nonsensical options.

Bugs' kiss without the perk is really hard to land but it options up for his death combos. So I guess the move is balanced in that sense.

Publicado originalmente por BillHicks:

I see you snuck crying about 2v2 in your post. it's a 2v2 focused game. Suck it up.

You can keep telling that to yourself. It does not live up to the mantra in concept. I elaborated why.

Let me give you just one other striking example why I am right: Steve Universe is supposed to be a support character. Yes, he mostly supports the enemy team. Placing shield and blocking team mates. Often I find myself in situations where he bubbles and saves my 150dmg+ opponents I'm about to ring out with up-airs. Sometimes his shields are in the way and shield the opponent from spikes. Sometimes he manages to place a horizontal shield at the edge and you can't get back to the platform as his team mate.

Another example: Harley's "Jerk in the Box" can be accidentally popped by team mates which not only wastes your cooldown but may throw them off and potentially killing them because it knocks back team mates!

Another example: Whenever I get a clean hit (sometimes even with Happy Birthdays) and attempt a long damaging loop combo my team mate just keeps swinging right into my combo and ruins it. So potential 160 damage are interrupted @40 dmg. Super frustrating..

Another example: Wonder Woman's shield can be misused as a platform and kill her team mates.

Another example: Bugs Bunny's tunnel encourages team play but can also go super wrong. Same goes for his safe and his rocket..

Another two examples: Reindog's pull and Batman's hook can kill your team mate/yourself.

[Inuakurei]

Publicado originalmente por Infevo:

Publicado originalmente por Cottoneyes:

One thing I can agree with is the perks but mostly character perks.

Overall I like the idea of perks and having your character have a extra playstyle option, but some perks just "complete" the character in some cases. In others they just feel like nothing much is gained from them.

Bug's kiss is a good example as without the perk it's pretty much a useless move on it's own so it's a requirement to even run that move, but the tunnel just makes a strong tool stronger without it needing it in the first place. Character perks should feel like side grades to functional moves rather than a slot that makes the character fully functional.

Some characters dont have it as hard with them but other you really need to build around.

I think perks are a great addition. In fact, they do to an extent what they are supposed to do. If you find a perk set with a nice synergy (synergizing with your character's kit, your team mate and the perks themselves), then perks can be really interesting exploring new playstyles. But there is just a plethora of nonsensical options.

Bugs' kiss without the perk is really hard to land but it options up for his death combos. So I guess the move is balanced in that sense.

Publicado originalmente por BillHicks:

I see you snuck crying about 2v2 in your post. it's a 2v2 focused game. Suck it up.

You can keep telling that to yourself. It does not live up to the mantra in concept. I elaborated why.

Let me give you just one other striking example why I am right: Steve Universe is supposed to be a support character. Yes, he mostly supports the enemy team. Placing shield and blocking team mates. Often I find myself in situations where he bubbles and saves my 150dmg+ opponents I'm about to ring out with up-airs. Sometimes his shields are in the way and shield the opponent from spikes. Sometimes he manages to place a horizontal shield at the edge and you can't get back to the platform as his team mate.

Another example: Harley's "Jerk in the Box" can be accidentally popped by team mates which not only wastes your cooldown but may throw them off and potentially killing them because it knocks back team mates!

Another example: Whenever I get a clean hit (sometimes even with Happy Birthdays) and attempt a long damaging loop combo my team mate just keeps swinging right into my combo and ruins it. So potential 160 damage are interrupted @40 dmg. Super frustrating..

Another example: Wonder Woman's shield can be misused as a platform and kill her team mates.

Another example: Bugs Bunny's tunnel encourages team play but can also go super wrong. Same goes for his safe and his rocket..

Another two examples: Reindog's pull and Batman's hook can kill your team mate/yourself.

You can play League of Legends and trap your own teammates inside J4's ult, but that doesnt make League a 1v1 game.

[Hunu]

Publicado originalmente por Infevo:

Again, I love this game and even supported it with the 100€ founders pack. I want this game to succeed as much as possible and especially appeal to a broad range of players in between casual gamers and pros. But I fail to see the vision of the game designers.

How do they want us to play the game?
What in particular is supposed to make this game interesting and enjoyable?
Where is the depth?
And in what direction is this title going in the future?

All these questions about the game and you put 100 before you had an answer, lol?

[Infevo]

Publicado originalmente por Inuakurei:

You can play League of Legends and trap your own teammates inside J4's ult, but that doesnt make League a 1v1 game.

It is more the significant prevalence. Yes, you can kill your teammates or ruin their combos in League but it is not as common. And J4 ult can be cancelled immediately which good players will do. In MV there is asynergy in every other game and much you cannot do a lot about. Even certain perk choices can screw up your team mates' game (fast fall + spiking next to edges may kill you).

Publicado originalmente por Hunu:

Publicado originalmente por Infevo:

Again, I love this game and even supported it with the 100€ founders pack. I want this game to succeed as much as possible and especially appeal to a broad range of players in between casual gamers and pros. But I fail to see the vision of the game designers.

How do they want us to play the game?
What in particular is supposed to make this game interesting and enjoyable?
Where is the depth?
And in what direction is this title going in the future?

All these questions about the game and you put 100 before you had an answer, lol?

Shouldn't I be able to question design choices as a customer? In fact, I think it is rather illegitimate when freeloaders who only play f2p content come on forums and show everyone how entitled they feel to more content.
Also I don't mind throwing a hundo at something that looks nice on the surface. I played about 60 hours already and enjoyed it so far. That means not even 2€ each hour. That's value to me but the point of this thread is not about what people like me can get out of this game short-term. Hence, my questions.
Btw. Some people pay 20 bucks to watch a movie in the cinema. That would be a huge waste of money for me because I hate movies.

[Trichouette]

I kinda agree with a lot of your points.

1# I main tom&jerry and I don't understand why his combo jab is so good. And since hit priority isn't a thing, he wins most situations by spamming it.

3# I keep saying this game doesn't have enough end-lags on the moves. Why are characters allowed to cancel everything all the time? How are we supposed to punish a move that missed completely?

7# I especially agree about that one. Maybe I haven't reached a level high enough that stamina is impactful, but right now I can spam dodge like a maniac and never get punished for it. The stamina decreases way too slowly

9# Move priority and endlag... Right now the game is a spam-fest

10# I actually enjoy the fact we have cooldowns. I hate SSBU for how many projectiles can be spammed. Here it actually requires you to use them properly.
However I do agree that some things don't make sense.
Why is shaggy allowed to spam sandwiches? Why does batman's batarang have a 1s cooldown if he catches it? Meanwhile some moves like taz' neutral special has a cooldown and I can't figure out why considering how bad it is.



Somehow this game manages to look a lot more casual than SSBU and at the same time they're pushing the competitive scene.

[Hunu]

Publicado originalmente por Infevo:

Publicado originalmente por Inuakurei:

You can play League of Legends and trap your own teammates inside J4's ult, but that doesnt make League a 1v1 game.

It is more the significant prevalence. Yes, you can kill your teammates or ruin their combos in League but it is not as common. And J4 ult can be cancelled immediately which good players will do. In MV there is asynergy in every other game and much you cannot do a lot about. Even certain perk choices can screw up your team mates' game (fast fall + spiking next to edges may kill you).

Publicado originalmente por Hunu:

All these questions about the game and you put 100 before you had an answer, lol?

Shouldn't I be able to question design choices as a customer? In fact, I think it is rather illegitimate when freeloaders who only play f2p content come on forums and show everyone how entitled they feel to more content.
Also I don't mind throwing a hundo at something that looks nice on the surface. I played about 60 hours already and enjoyed it so far. That means not even 2€ each hour. That's value to me but the point of this thread is not about what people like me can get out of this game short-term. Hence, my questions.
Btw. Some people pay 20 bucks to watch a movie in the cinema. That would be a huge waste of money for me because I hate movies.

I just think it's stupid to spend money on something you don't know what you're getting.

[Infevo]

Publicado originalmente por Hunu:

I just think it's stupid to spend money on something you don't know what you're getting.

Maybe to you money is a scarce resource. To me 100€ are neglectable. I also wrote explicitly that I love the game. Is it because you have such horrific reading comprehension skills that you couldn't make it in life and get a job to earn money?

[Netsa]

Was avoiding this because I thought it was a clown thread, but I agree on basically all the OP's points. It's a trash game that I have a lot of hours in purely because of leaderboards.

[Hunu]

Publicado originalmente por Infevo:

Publicado originalmente por Hunu:

I just think it's stupid to spend money on something you don't know what you're getting.

Maybe to you money is a scarce resource. To me 100€ are neglectable. I also wrote explicitly that I love the game. Is it because you have such horrific reading comprehension skills that you couldn't make it in life and get a job to earn money?

A fool and his money are easily parted.

This game is a goofy ass clone that you could have tried and experienced most of for free, imagine being proud instead of embarrassed that you spent money on it before knowing what you were getting into. That makes you a sucker, nothing more.

People like you justify yourselves like "if I didn't pay, these /poor/ people (ew) wouldn't have a game to play."

No, we'd have fairer prices and more value for money.

See ya, chump.