No Denuvo = No Buy

[Broken Devil 2]

They are releasing one of the best exclusives on PC and not using the drm which prevents piracy day 1. I do want this game to sell better on PC and developers need all the support they can get.

If they will not use drm than pirates will this for free, without giving a damn penny to the developers who worked hard on this.

If there no Denuvo = No buy.

Why we pay and pirate play it for free?

[p4RASY]

DRM affects PC performance, i prefer not have the drm.

[Sam]

Buddy, sony made tons of money from this spidey and miles for the last 4 years now, heck tons of pc gamers already pre-ordered, you think sony Will sweat about a few kiddos pirating a 4 year old game?
You wanna come on man??

[dimANUS]

Maybe that's a good thing. Denuvo reduces the performance of games. This is most noticeable in the now far from new Prey, where the average frame rate with active protection is 148 PFS versus 180 FPS without it.

Whereas Metro Exodus is almost no different in frame rate across all versions of the game, but you can see the difference in loading speed. The anti-piracy protection increases the loading time of the game by almost 15 seconds.

I think more players don't have ultra-high PCs, and the lack of Denuvo will probably give some performance upside.
However, I will say that I myself bought the game and would not want pirates to play it for free, first of all, you have to respect developers

[Seagal]

Originally posted by Terofishy96:

I do not want to be rude, but you clearly do not know what are you talking about.

Denuvo is extremly anti-consumer.

I understand you want developers/publishers to protect this amazing game, but let me tell you something. Every anti-piracy protection is broken sooner or later. People who want to pirate games, will always pirate them, but I am sure that majority of gamers will buy games, because most people know this is the right thing to do.

DRM protection is effective, when it does not effect consumer experience, but Denuvo in current state is far from that. Denuvo games require reactivation if you haven't played them in a while or if you change any of your computer's hardware, and you must authenticate with Denuvo servers every time you receive an update (Simply allowing Steam to update is not enough. You must also open the game once while connected to the internet after each update). They don't require always online, but they do require sometimes online.

More you can read on this link:

When people buy game, they want to own it and play it whenever they want. There are cases where players didn't buy the game just because of Denuvo protection. You see the problem? I wrote at the beginning that every anti-piracy protection is broken sooner or later. So it happens that bad people, who pirated the game, have better experience than honest people who bought the game, because of Denuvo.

There's a lot wrong with that link you provided. It's things like that which spread misinformation to everyone. That's the problem with so many arguing against Denuvo. It's usually always filled with misinformation, either to strengthen their position or because they don't know any better and are just repeating what they've heard.

DRM in general is anti-consumer. There's no benefit at all to the consumer for using any of it, and that works for both Denuvo and things like the Steam Wrapper. Are you aware that Valve themselves encourage the use of third-party DRM's? It's directly written in the Steamworks documentation. Valve says developers can and should use third-party DRM's with Steam. "The Steam wrapper can and should be used in combination with other DRM solutions."

Developers look to Valve for advice and guidance on how to best set themselves up for success on Steam and Valve is telling developers to use third-party DRM's. What is a developer supposed to think when it comes straight from the horses mouth?

Denuvo wouldn't even work with out Steam's own DRM. Denuvo is just an Anti-Tamper protecting the DRM already in place by Steam.

Just because people subscribe to the thought that every anti-piracy measure will be broken that doesn't mean you shouldn't even bother anymore protecting a game that costs tens sometimes into the hundred plus million dollar range. The overwhelming majority of game sales happen in the first week of sale, and that's ultimately what the goal is for protection. Protecting the critical sales windows of the game.

You're assuming what people will or won't do here. You think people are either a pirate or they're not. Like there's no such thing as casual piracy or that people can't be both a game buyer and a pirate at the same time. Right or wrong only goes so far when there's no repercussions. Torrenting a game isn't going to land you in jail. Robbing a convenient store will, or it should, but that's a whole different discussion...

The whole online requirement is vastly overblown an exaggerated. If you're downloading a digital game why is it so hard to start it up immediately to generate an offline token? If the system environment changes to from updates to necessitate a token renewal, why exactly don't you have a connection?

Offline token generation can be done through a secondary device that has internet connectivity. If your home internet is out do you not have a phone you can use? Are there extremely rare situations where an activation server could go down? Sure, because nothing, and I mean nothing, has 100% up-time. Is that going to affect everyone? Nope. Most people won't be affected at all, because they'd already have a valid token.

Please stop using the word "own". I understand that people might want to think they own the games they buy, but you don't own anything. You're paying for a license to access the software and nothing more.

Are you aware that Valve themselves have literally said that Steam is a rental service? Because they have literally argued that position in court. Valve has said Steam is a rental service. You do not own anything you buy on Steam.

A better place to direct people to would be the PCGamingWiki Denuvo page. That's more of an unbiased source on information about Denuvo.

Denuvo is certainly not something anyone should want in their games, but the same thing could be said about the Steam wrapper. Neither provide anything positive at all the the consumer. It negative effects, however, are extremely overblown or wrong. So many people are quick to put the blame on Denuvo for things that are caused by something else entirely. That's how speculation spreads misinformation.

I mean, look at Resident Evil: VIllage, you had all these news outlets and gamers blaming Denuvo for the performance issues, when it was in fact Capcom's own Anti-Tamper that was causing the issue. Denuvo's the easy target though and the misinformation spreads and the fake narrative strengthens. The group responsible for the crack straight up said it wasn't Denuvo even. The game was patched by Capcom to fix their own mess and the Denuvo version runs better than the cracked.

So stop spreading misinformation. It doesn't strengthen any argument against DRM, which no doubt every studio who uses Denuvo has heard debated ad nauseam. It's simple enough to argue against DRM because it provides no benefit to the consumer.

Don't like Denuvo then don't buy a game with it. That's your choice, just like the developers have the choice to protect their multi-million dollar investments the way they'd like to also.

[meowlo]

Originally posted by Seagal:

Originally posted by Terofishy96:

I do not want to be rude, but you clearly do not know what are you talking about.

Denuvo is extremly anti-consumer.

I understand you want developers/publishers to protect this amazing game, but let me tell you something. Every anti-piracy protection is broken sooner or later. People who want to pirate games, will always pirate them, but I am sure that majority of gamers will buy games, because most people know this is the right thing to do.

DRM protection is effective, when it does not effect consumer experience, but Denuvo in current state is far from that. Denuvo games require reactivation if you haven't played them in a while or if you change any of your computer's hardware, and you must authenticate with Denuvo servers every time you receive an update (Simply allowing Steam to update is not enough. You must also open the game once while connected to the internet after each update). They don't require always online, but they do require sometimes online.

More you can read on this link:

When people buy game, they want to own it and play it whenever they want. There are cases where players didn't buy the game just because of Denuvo protection. You see the problem? I wrote at the beginning that every anti-piracy protection is broken sooner or later. So it happens that bad people, who pirated the game, have better experience than honest people who bought the game, because of Denuvo.

There's a lot wrong with that link you provided. It's things like that which spread misinformation to everyone. That's the problem with so many arguing against Denuvo. It's usually always filled with misinformation, either to strengthen their position or because they don't know any better and are just repeating what they've heard.

DRM in general is anti-consumer. There's no benefit at all to the consumer for using any of it, and that works for both Denuvo and things like the Steam Wrapper. Are you aware that Valve themselves encourage the use of third-party DRM's? It's directly written in the Steamworks documentation. Valve says developers can and should use third-party DRM's with Steam. "The Steam wrapper can and should be used in combination with other DRM solutions."

Developers look to Valve for advice and guidance on how to best set themselves up for success on Steam and Valve is telling developers to use third-party DRM's. What is a developer supposed to think when it comes straight from the horses mouth?

Denuvo wouldn't even work with out Steam's own DRM. Denuvo is just an Anti-Tamper protecting the DRM already in place by Steam.

Just because people subscribe to the thought that every anti-piracy measure will be broken that doesn't mean you shouldn't even bother anymore protecting a game that costs tens sometimes into the hundred plus million dollar range. The overwhelming majority of game sales happen in the first week of sale, and that's ultimately what the goal is for protection. Protecting the critical sales windows of the game.

You're assuming what people will or won't do here. You think people are either a pirate or they're not. Like there's no such thing as casual piracy or that people can't be both a game buyer and a pirate at the same time. Right or wrong only goes so far when there's no repercussions. Torrenting a game isn't going to land you in jail. Robbing a convenient store will, or it should, but that's a whole different discussion...

The whole online requirement is vastly overblown an exaggerated. If you're downloading a digital game why is it so hard to start it up immediately to generate an offline token? If the system environment changes to from updates to necessitate a token renewal, why exactly don't you have a connection?

Offline token generation can be done through a secondary device that has internet connectivity. If your home internet is out do you not have a phone you can use? Are there extremely rare situations where an activation server could go down? Sure, because nothing, and I mean nothing, has 100% up-time. Is that going to affect everyone? Nope. Most people won't be affected at all, because they'd already have a valid token.

Please stop using the word "own". I understand that people might want to think they own the games they buy, but you don't own anything. You're paying for a license to access the software and nothing more.

Are you aware that Valve themselves have literally said that Steam is a rental service? Because they have literally argued that position in court. Valve has said Steam is a rental service. You do not own anything you buy on Steam.

A better place to direct people to would be the PCGamingWiki Denuvo page. That's more of an unbiased source on information about Denuvo.

Denuvo is certainly not something anyone should want in their games, but the same thing could be said about the Steam wrapper. Neither provide anything positive at all the the consumer. It negative effects, however, are extremely overblown or wrong. So many people are quick to put the blame on Denuvo for things that are caused by something else entirely. That's how speculation spreads misinformation.

I mean, look at Resident Evil: VIllage, you had all these news outlets and gamers blaming Denuvo for the performance issues, when it was in fact Capcom's own Anti-Tamper that was causing the issue. Denuvo's the easy target though and the misinformation spreads and the fake narrative strengthens. The group responsible for the crack straight up said it wasn't Denuvo even. The game was patched by Capcom to fix their own mess and the Denuvo version runs better than the cracked.

So stop spreading misinformation. It doesn't strengthen any argument against DRM, which no doubt every studio who uses Denuvo has heard debated ad nauseam. It's simple enough to argue against DRM because it provides no benefit to the consumer.

Don't like Denuvo then don't buy a game with it. That's your choice, just like the developers have the choice to protect their multi-million dollar investments the way they'd like to also.

You said it better than I could. Wish more people understood the entire big picture when it comes to Denuvo and the videogame industry, but it feels like for most people, just reading that word causes their brain to switch from rational thinking to purely emotion-derived thought patterns. It's such a strange phenomenon.

[Darsh]

Originally posted by Akorn1987:

Originally posted by Seagal:

There's a lot wrong with that link you provided. It's things like that which spread misinformation to everyone. That's the problem with so many arguing against Denuvo. It's usually always filled with misinformation, either to strengthen their position or because they don't know any better and are just repeating what they've heard.

DRM in general is anti-consumer. There's no benefit at all to the consumer for using any of it, and that works for both Denuvo and things like the Steam Wrapper. Are you aware that Valve themselves encourage the use of third-party DRM's? It's directly written in the Steamworks documentation. Valve says developers can and should use third-party DRM's with Steam. "The Steam wrapper can and should be used in combination with other DRM solutions."

Developers look to Valve for advice and guidance on how to best set themselves up for success on Steam and Valve is telling developers to use third-party DRM's. What is a developer supposed to think when it comes straight from the horses mouth?

Denuvo wouldn't even work with out Steam's own DRM. Denuvo is just an Anti-Tamper protecting the DRM already in place by Steam.

Just because people subscribe to the thought that every anti-piracy measure will be broken that doesn't mean you shouldn't even bother anymore protecting a game that costs tens sometimes into the hundred plus million dollar range. The overwhelming majority of game sales happen in the first week of sale, and that's ultimately what the goal is for protection. Protecting the critical sales windows of the game.

You're assuming what people will or won't do here. You think people are either a pirate or they're not. Like there's no such thing as casual piracy or that people can't be both a game buyer and a pirate at the same time. Right or wrong only goes so far when there's no repercussions. Torrenting a game isn't going to land you in jail. Robbing a convenient store will, or it should, but that's a whole different discussion...

The whole online requirement is vastly overblown an exaggerated. If you're downloading a digital game why is it so hard to start it up immediately to generate an offline token? If the system environment changes to from updates to necessitate a token renewal, why exactly don't you have a connection?

Offline token generation can be done through a secondary device that has internet connectivity. If your home internet is out do you not have a phone you can use? Are there extremely rare situations where an activation server could go down? Sure, because nothing, and I mean nothing, has 100% up-time. Is that going to affect everyone? Nope. Most people won't be affected at all, because they'd already have a valid token.

Please stop using the word "own". I understand that people might want to think they own the games they buy, but you don't own anything. You're paying for a license to access the software and nothing more.

Are you aware that Valve themselves have literally said that Steam is a rental service? Because they have literally argued that position in court. Valve has said Steam is a rental service. You do not own anything you buy on Steam.

A better place to direct people to would be the PCGamingWiki Denuvo page. That's more of an unbiased source on information about Denuvo.

Denuvo is certainly not something anyone should want in their games, but the same thing could be said about the Steam wrapper. Neither provide anything positive at all the the consumer. It negative effects, however, are extremely overblown or wrong. So many people are quick to put the blame on Denuvo for things that are caused by something else entirely. That's how speculation spreads misinformation.

I mean, look at Resident Evil: VIllage, you had all these news outlets and gamers blaming Denuvo for the performance issues, when it was in fact Capcom's own Anti-Tamper that was causing the issue. Denuvo's the easy target though and the misinformation spreads and the fake narrative strengthens. The group responsible for the crack straight up said it wasn't Denuvo even. The game was patched by Capcom to fix their own mess and the Denuvo version runs better than the cracked.

So stop spreading misinformation. It doesn't strengthen any argument against DRM, which no doubt every studio who uses Denuvo has heard debated ad nauseam. It's simple enough to argue against DRM because it provides no benefit to the consumer.

Don't like Denuvo then don't buy a game with it. That's your choice, just like the developers have the choice to protect their multi-million dollar investments the way they'd like to also.

You said it better than I could. Wish more people understood the entire big picture when it comes to Denuvo and the videogame industry, but it feels like for most people, just reading that word causes their brain to switch from rational thinking to purely emotion-derived thought patterns. It's such a strange phenomenon.

So...you both say that Denuvo isn't something that we as consumers should ever really want, and it does nothing for us. That it is at least possible for paying customers to suffer (SOME not ALL) if it is added. And that if it is in a game, just shut up and don't buy it.

Yet, you are both here, defending a thread trying to ♥♥♥♥♥ out the dev's into ADDING it even though they clearly didn't want to...All to, what? Take the contrarian side of the argument so you can feel suuuuper duuuper smartererere than all the forum 'kids'?

Dumb thread, pointless defenses, will cause nothing to change, can we all just stop this and get hype for a cool game that doesn't have this ♥♥♥♥ in it? Like for real, save this argument for the next game with the software actually in it jezus.

[meowlo]

Originally posted by Darsh:

Originally posted by Akorn1987:

You said it better than I could. Wish more people understood the entire big picture when it comes to Denuvo and the videogame industry, but it feels like for most people, just reading that word causes their brain to switch from rational thinking to purely emotion-derived thought patterns. It's such a strange phenomenon.

So...you both say that Denuvo isn't something that we as consumers should ever really want, and it does nothing for us. That it is at least possible for paying customers to suffer (SOME not ALL) if it is added. And that if it is in a game, just shut up and don't buy it.

Yet, you are both here, defending a thread trying to ♥♥♥♥♥ out the dev's into ADDING it even though they clearly didn't want to...All to, what? Take the contrarian side of the argument so you can feel suuuuper duuuper smartererere than all the forum 'kids'?

Dumb thread, pointless defenses, will cause nothing to change, can we all just stop this and get hype for a cool game that doesn't have this ♥♥♥♥ in it? Like for real, save this argument for the next game with the software actually in it jezus.

Did you even read anything the person I quoted said, or that I said, before replying?

[Seagal]

Originally posted by Darsh:

So...you both say that Denuvo isn't something that we as consumers should ever really want, and it does nothing for us. That it is at least possible for paying customers to suffer (SOME not ALL) if it is added. And that if it is in a game, just shut up and don't buy it.

Yet, you are both here, defending a thread trying to ♥♥♥♥♥ out the dev's into ADDING it even though they clearly didn't want to...All to, what? Take the contrarian side of the argument so you can feel suuuuper duuuper smartererere than all the forum 'kids'?

Dumb thread, pointless defenses, will cause nothing to change, can we all just stop this and get hype for a cool game that doesn't have this ♥♥♥♥ in it? Like for real, save this argument for the next game with the software actually in it jezus.

I think it's important to point out misinformation, along with what is speculation and untruths about Denuvo. I can do that and still say no one should want Denuvo or Steam's DRM in games, because they don't do anything beneficial for me.

I think it's also important to point out where Valve's own position lies, and why some might use third-party DRM's because Valve is literally telling them to. Particularly with Japanese studios who might not be as familiar with the PC scene as others. So looking towards Valve for advice on how to navigate Steam is a real thing, and what those studios see is Valve telling them they should be using third-party DRM's with Steam.

And just because I say there's nothing beneficial in a DRM, that doesn't mean I can't also agree with a developers personal choice to protect a multi-million dollar investment in a way they feel is best for them. If that means Denuvo, then that's totally their right, and if I'm interested in the game I will still buy it.

I've had Denuvo games going back to 2015 and maybe 2014, and I've logged thousands of hours on those games combined, and not once during those years have I ever not been able to play or enjoy a game because of Denuvo.

Again, this isn't about taking any side of an argument, and hating Denuvo isn't even the popular opinion. Most people wouldn't even know what Denuvo is if not for the forum spam. I'm not trying to make myself feel smarter than anyone else, and I would never think or suggest that I am. This is just my opinion on the subject.

And I understand that you may feel a certain way about the thread, but there's no reason for you to get worked up about it. Much like a game with Denuvo, just ignore the thread in this case if you really don't like it. I know my posts have been entirely civil, and I believe most of the thread has been also with the exception of a few.

You know, the easiest way to let a thread die is for people to just not respond, but when people respond to others that generates responses back, and you see how it goes. I will help kill this thread by not responding anymore, because do agree with you that the thread was kind of pointless to begin with, but welcome to the Steam forums.

[Dozer]

i thought they said "optimized for pc" not "unoptimized for pc"

[Freak4Leeks]

i really do appreciate that Playstation a AAA company not only puts their exclusives on PC but are doing it DRM free, well aside from steam but lets be honest might as well have none. Big kudos honestly.

but i am curious if they do it out of ignorance to DRM or not wanting to pay for it or implement it. or actually just don't want DRM.

[Carl Sagan]

A new level of stupid.

[Valadhiel0820]

Originally posted by Broken Devil 2:

They are releasing one of the best exclusives on PC and not using the drm which prevents piracy day 1. I do want this game to sell better on PC and developers need all the support they can get.

If they will not use drm than pirates will this for free, without giving a damn penny to the developers who worked hard on this.

If there no Denuvo = No buy.

Why we pay and pirate play it for free?

The people who will buy it will still buy it even it at the full price, the idiots who pirate games still wont buy it even it has Denuvo, so it wont be any difference, just let those idiots enjoy their way, if their pc gets info stolen or malware inside then that is their problem...

[Cuddle Bunny!]

Give us Denuvo or we walk. Show us you care about your game Sony please

[flappyjackz]

i was going to buy this game day one, but now im going to pirate it just to piss this guy off.

[Dozer]

Originally posted by flappyjackz:

i was going to buy this game day one, but now im going to pirate it just to piss this guy off.

based