i-frames please

[raynebc]

After fighting Sky Rending Claw dozens of times, it's a bit annoying to get stunlocked and go from full health to no health.

[BelleOverHeaven]

i-Frames are for dodging people and we don't dodge here. :D
You can parry all of his attacks, which is definitely a better option than trying to dodge. What also helps is to unlock the “Swift Rise” skill - this means you can get up straight back after a hit and are not helpless against your opponent's attacks.

[林博仁(Buo-ren Lin)]

Some hints that may help you in this fight:

• Avoid dodging the claw attacks which is not the designated solution of these attack patterns.
  
• The Swift Rise skill reduces the vulnerability window after you are knocked down by the boss's attack.
  
• The Quick Dose jade reduces the vulnerability window when you're healing.
  
• The Revival jade gives you a second chance when receiving too much Direct Damage.
  
• It is possible to increase your maximum health by using a certain in-game mechanic, try to discover/make good use of it.
  
• The Immortal Dash and the Air Dash skill give you I-frames to dodge the laser beam attacks during the second phase.
  
• The laser portion of the consecutive sniping and crimson claw laser attack pattern can be avoided in at least two ways while one gives you a big attack window, observe and use the surrounding environments!
  
• As a last resort, switch to Story Mode and reduce the received damage modifier to allow you more time to practice, you can tweak back to normal difficulty at any time!

Good luck!

[Big Dogy :)]

Hi! Are you still having trouble with this fight? If so, I can give you some suggestions on how to "solve" it.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

Originally posted by BelleOverHeaven:

i-Frames are for dodging people and we don't dodge here. :D
You can parry all of his attacks, which is definitely a better option than trying to dodge. What also helps is to unlock the “Swift Rise” skill - this means you can get up straight back after a hit and are not helpless against your opponent's attacks.

It has nothing to do with dodging. In this game you will die from taking multiple hits in quick succession, with no possibility to escape and even losing your respawn along the way. That is bad. I often felt like the respawn didn't even work because it didn't seem to do anything.

It makes surviving a battle feel luck-based because if you're lucky, you won't miss a parry at a point where it will cause you to get hit 5+ times and die.

To solve this problem, most games give you i-frames on getting hit and when respawning. I don't know why the devs chose not to do that in this game, but I don't think it was a good idea. It feels unfair and adds a lot of unnecessary frustration to an already difficult game.

[林博仁(Buo-ren Lin)]

Originally posted by Kapitein Gnapmans:

It has nothing to do with dodging. In this game you will die from taking multiple hits in quick succession, with no possibility to escape and even losing your respawn along the way.

That's why there's the Swift Rise skill, it gives you the possibility to escape. Reducing your vulnerable frames is as helpful as giving you invincibility frames for no logical reason.

[Rotom]

Originally posted by 林博仁(Buo-ren Lin):

Originally posted by Kapitein Gnapmans:

It has nothing to do with dodging. In this game you will die from taking multiple hits in quick succession, with no possibility to escape and even losing your respawn along the way.

That's why there's the Swift Rise skill, it gives you the possibility to escape. Reducing your vulnerable frames is as helpful as giving you invincibility frames for no logical reason.

While I don't think I frames are needed on being hit, I do agree about having them on respawn. The swift rise skill doesn't do anything to help in the respawn instance. The problem is you get hit by an attack, thrown back into a laser/pit/whatever, then by the time you spawn back in and the screen is fading back from black the enemy has already hit you with another attack and sent you right back into the laser/pit/whatever so you get looped.

This isn't a common issue. I think only 2-3 side bosses in the game have an arena where this can happen and it's pretty rare to run into with normal enemies, but having a short bit of iframes, at least until the black fades away and you can actually see the game, would be nice.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

Originally posted by Rotom:

Originally posted by 林博仁(Buo-ren Lin):

That's why there's the Swift Rise skill, it gives you the possibility to escape. Reducing your vulnerable frames is as helpful as giving you invincibility frames for no logical reason.

While I don't think I frames are needed on being hit, I do agree about having them on respawn. The swift rise skill doesn't do anything to help in the respawn instance. The problem is you get hit by an attack, thrown back into a laser/pit/whatever, then by the time you spawn back in and the screen is fading back from black the enemy has already hit you with another attack and sent you right back into the laser/pit/whatever so you get looped.

This isn't a common issue. I think only 2-3 side bosses in the game have an arena where this can happen and it's pretty rare to run into with normal enemies, but having a short bit of iframes, at least until the black fades away and you can actually see the game, would be nice.

Swift rise solves nothing, because the problem is not about getting knocked down. It's about getting stunlocked from consecutive hits. And it's not just pits either. There can be bombs, multiple rockets, that slow moving "fire", etcetera all at the same time and instakill you. You don't even hit the ground at any point if you are caught in that in midair.

[leo_gear]

Originally posted by Kapitein Gnapmans:

Originally posted by Rotom:

While I don't think I frames are needed on being hit, I do agree about having them on respawn. The swift rise skill doesn't do anything to help in the respawn instance. The problem is you get hit by an attack, thrown back into a laser/pit/whatever, then by the time you spawn back in and the screen is fading back from black the enemy has already hit you with another attack and sent you right back into the laser/pit/whatever so you get looped.

This isn't a common issue. I think only 2-3 side bosses in the game have an arena where this can happen and it's pretty rare to run into with normal enemies, but having a short bit of iframes, at least until the black fades away and you can actually see the game, would be nice.

Swift rise solves nothing, because the problem is not about getting knocked down. It's about getting stunlocked from consecutive hits. And it's not just pits either. There can be bombs, multiple rockets, that slow moving "fire", etcetera all at the same time and instakill you. You don't even hit the ground at any point if you are caught in that in midair.

A combination of no contact damage (most enemies), most attacks knocking you away from the source, strategic i-frames (your air-dodge cooldown resets if you touch the ground) and focus on maneuverability (tai chi kick resets your jump, you have double jump, you can hang in the air with arrows, talisman launches you in the direction you're facing) means there is danger in letting yourself get multi-struck BUT you have tools to escape and prevent that.

If you really wanted, you could equip the Steely jade and you won't get stunned out of normal hits after using a talisman so long as you're not using Water Flow. Should let you use your talisman button as another stunbreak on top of immortal dodge.

[Boromir, Son of Faramir]

I-frames would be nice, without them multiple enemy encounters can end up harder than bosses if you get unlucky, I agree.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

Originally posted by leo_gear:

Originally posted by Kapitein Gnapmans:

Swift rise solves nothing, because the problem is not about getting knocked down. It's about getting stunlocked from consecutive hits. And it's not just pits either. There can be bombs, multiple rockets, that slow moving "fire", etcetera all at the same time and instakill you. You don't even hit the ground at any point if you are caught in that in midair.

A combination of no contact damage (most enemies), most attacks knocking you away from the source, strategic i-frames (your air-dodge cooldown resets if you touch the ground) and focus on maneuverability (tai chi kick resets your jump, you have double jump, you can hang in the air with arrows, talisman launches you in the direction you're facing) means there is danger in letting yourself get multi-struck BUT you have tools to escape and prevent that.

If you really wanted, you could equip the Steely jade and you won't get stunned out of normal hits after using a talisman so long as you're not using Water Flow. Should let you use your talisman button as another stunbreak on top of immortal dodge.

I'm tired of fanboys coming up with excuses. None of these things matter. There need to be i-frames just like in ANY OTHER GAME. Getting bounced around by explosions and losing your respawn like it wasn't even there is indefensible.

[LbISbIy]

Originally posted by Kapitein Gnapmans:

I'm tired of fanboys coming up with excuses. None of these things matter. There need to be i-frames just like in ANY OTHER GAME. Getting bounced around by explosions and losing your respawn like it wasn't even there is indefensible.

There is an internal damage game mechanic.
It is impossible to lose from internal damage.
Internal damage is fully restored over time.
You are literally invulnerable as long as you block in any way.

i-frames take away the ability to block in a blocking game.
This will literally destroy the game core mechanics.

After respawn (Revival Jade), health is not restored immediately.
This is purposive.

Dodge has i-frames.
Falling into traps is skill issue

[leo_gear]

Originally posted by Kapitein Gnapmans:

Originally posted by leo_gear:

A combination of no contact damage (most enemies), most attacks knocking you away from the source, strategic i-frames (your air-dodge cooldown resets if you touch the ground) and focus on maneuverability (tai chi kick resets your jump, you have double jump, you can hang in the air with arrows, talisman launches you in the direction you're facing) means there is danger in letting yourself get multi-struck BUT you have tools to escape and prevent that.

If you really wanted, you could equip the Steely jade and you won't get stunned out of normal hits after using a talisman so long as you're not using Water Flow. Should let you use your talisman button as another stunbreak on top of immortal dodge.

I'm tired of fanboys coming up with excuses. None of these things matter. There need to be i-frames just like in ANY OTHER GAME. Getting bounced around by explosions and losing your respawn like it wasn't even there is indefensible.

Would you rather I just say your ideas are bad and you suck? I was just pointing to things that could mitigate your problem.

[funkyojo]

Avoid being in those situations where bouncing between enemies are possible is quite reasonable to me.
Unlike other soul games, falling into spike pits doesn't instantly kill you. The stake is low enough imo.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

Originally posted by funkyojo:

Avoid being in those situations where bouncing between enemies are possible is quite reasonable to me.
Unlike other soul games, falling into spike pits doesn't instantly kill you. The stake is low enough imo.

It's just as reasonable as saying "Just don't play the game, then it won't happen"

[林博仁(Buo-ren Lin)]

Originally posted by Kapitein Gnapmans:

It's just as reasonable as saying "Just don't play the game, then it won't happen"

Nope.