A possible compromise to rectify the (overly) pvp-centric game play.

[Fx3.髭男]

I brought up a lot of points first play test on why I thought Arc Raiders would fail 3-6 months after release. I was happy to see some of the issues appear to have been changed this playtest. But it only took a few matches to see that the core of the gameplay hasn't changed. PvE is nonexistant and the vast majority of game play revolves around rushing spawn points or extraction points and camping.

This is fine and all if your goal is to drain your player base for a time until people burn out and quit. And considering who is backing this game, that still is my gut feeling. But since some changes were actually made, I thought I would again voice my previous points on how to compromise the game play to appease a larger player base, and in my opinion, add additional layers and depth to the game play.

As the supposed setting is a small, devastated mankind struggling to survive, it really makes no sense that the game play focuses so largely on pvp. And let's be honest, since the best way to win a fight is to have an advantage, camping and spawn rushing very quickly become the meta. Coupled with the fact that there is currently nothing to balance out skill differences in players, many will inevitably either burn out and quit, spend money on P2W features (if it's an option, which it seems like that is one thing that has been nixed to an extent, which is appreciated) or, worst case scenario, resort to cheating (see: Marauders. Incompetent devs could not fix bugs or stop cheaters, causing the game to quickly dwindle and die.)

And so, as a gamer of ~30 years who mostly sticks to competitive gaming, I believe a few relatively simple changes will help keep pvp encounters natural and genuine, offer better immersion for the world that has been built, and be a fair compromise to a PvE centric player base.

1. The Division style markers for people who put a heavy focus on PvP, with bounties and incentives. I had some very fun times when The Division first came out. Roaming the dark zone with a suped up twink, sitting with a buddy on top of the library building (2 ladders being the only way to reach the top) as every single player in the zone was alerted to our presence because we had killed so many people. The resulting 2v20 was an adrenaline filled, desperate fight for survival. Implementing a similar system would do a lot to curb reckless pvp'ing while simultaneously offering bigger incentives for both sides of the spectrum. The game already insinuates that a lot of gunfire will draw drones but in actuality, it doesn't. More drones, flying high, easily visible to other players can help accomplish this. A crime/reputation system that rewards players for hunting the pvpers, discourages wanton violence, and helps the people who don't want to pvp stay out of it. Also, small handicaps like ~2 seconds of additional damage reduction on being shot first help players run away or adjust for a more fair fight if a pvper gets the drop on them while not being overly powerful as to single-handedly turn the fight for the potential victim.

2. Anti-Camping patrols of actually dangerous bots near extraction zones. If implemented well, it would making camping much more dangerous. If done really well, it would incentive players to work together to take said patrols down and extract without incident. What I mean by that is that is these should be something that 1-2 players would really struggle to or be unable to take out alone. Ideally, to prevent people from immediately turning on one another right after, you'd want the proverbial Mexican standoff. Meaning if 3+ groups are required to take down said patrols, any itchy trigger fingers would be vastly out numbered and likely to die if they let their intrusive thoughts take over. Or, it would be a completely blood bath which can also be fun. Either way

If the patrol radius is a circle around the extraction point, that dips close to and far away from the elevator coming close enough to aggro on to campers but strays far enough that a quick extraction is possible without much risk it will succeed in slowing campers as they will have to constantly adjust to the patrol and will essentially be in an easy to pinpoint location, if that helps visualize my meaning for "patrol" - this also shouldn't be done on every extraction point. more like 1/3 to 1/2 of them.

3. Just up the difficulty in general. The world is large and empty. Probably half of all players don't even bother looting, just rush to fight. None of the robots feel dangerous, and even if you do screw up and end up in a bad position they're extremely easy to just run or walk away from. One doorway and you're basically in the clear.

Put drones in pairs or groups and give them basic flanking AI. Actually make things react to gunfire. Make those little spider ♥♥♥♥♥ more aggressive. Every encounter should push for a calculated risk-reward assessment.

All that being said, the new tutorial was fantastic, immersive, and makes it seem Embark is actually trying to improve the game. I believe most of the changes I've suggested could be implemented in ~6 months and really don't require much additional work or creating anything new from scratch. I hope to see the studio implement something along the lines of what I've suggested, or maybe even come up with different solutions to broaden the game play. And I hope that Nexon doesn't influence the decisions too much and turn it into a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ cash grab like they usually do.

So in conclusion, I don't believe this game needs a PvE only mode like so many have called for. But I didn't play Dota 2 for 12k hours and 16 years of my life and not manage to pick up a few things about how to balance a game better for replay-ability.

[SolutionS]

There are bots at the extraction points. Many times its the Rocketeer. Also Camping extraction isnt a great strategy in this game, its certainly not a free kill. Even if youre downed in the extract you still get out and you can still call the extract when down. There are many fights that take place near the extract sure but thats clearly the intention since it announces it to everyone in the area over the speakers.

I dont think we need a bounty system, right now when you kill someone it launches a flair into the air indicating your exact location.

Also during my whole playtest I never got in a group where we rushed a spawn points nor camped an extract and all I played was with randoms. Also since groups spawn in at random intervals this isnt strategy at all.

Tbh I think this game is fine as it is. if you play loud and aggressive you can expect to see more people come towards you and the likelihood of getting 3rd partied is high. On the otherhand if you play slow and quiet you may not engage one person especially with the raider hatch keys. Pve is already super hard and annoying since every bot makes tons of noise and the larger ones kill you soo fast.

But lets be honest these suggestions seem to avoid the fact that Dying and losing everything is part of the intended experience. I feel like these suggestions take away from that. The is a wonderfully made PvPvE game.

[Fx3.髭男]

Only bothered to play 3 matches this play test because it didn't really look like a whole lot had changed game play wise but 2 I got kills by spawn rushing, one lost a 2v1 at extraction to campers. I've never seen more than a drone and a hornet at extraction (and not talking about nearby but avoidable) and never have had any difficulty with bots anywhere so just gonna say skill issue on that.

You can think the game is fine as is. I'm writing my opinions on what I think will benefit the very large player base that clearly does not, or are you being willfully ignorant on that front?

No where anywhere did I say anything remotely close to changing the permadeath/lose items aspect of extraction shooters. So idk, maybe willfully ignorant was giving you too much credit. I don't even agree with the little safety pocket. Are you delusional?

[Father President]

The only thing that needs rectification is how they will handle cheaters.

It is a PvP game. PvE would be too boring here.

I play Rust and Helldivers 2 for two different reasons and I will be playing Arc Raiders for the extraction mechanics, which includes PvP.

[Kalgert]

Originally posted by Father President:

It is a PvP game. PvE would be too boring here.

Funny how the PvP fanatics can't keep their story straight about the game. Some calling it a social game, some call it pure PvP game, others call it PvEvP.

Also funny is the "PvE will be too boring" argument. It's one I heard for Sea of Thieves as well, and yet people are quite happy with the Safer Seas mode. In fact that game is arguably superior when it's PvE, as opposed to PvP.

[Grimmsch]

Originally posted by Kalgert:

Funny how the PvP fanatics can't keep their story straight about the game. Some calling it a social game, some call it pure PvP game, others call it PvEvP.

I see mostly PvE "fanatics" plastered all over the steam forum and I don't see how those three points of view contradict each other.

The one thing it is not is a single-player/ co-op PvE experience. There is always the threat of running into someone else.

[Kalgert]

Originally posted by Grimmsch:

I see mostly PvE "fanatics" plastered all over the steam forum

You mean the original audience, before the game pivoted into a PvP game because the developers can't make a "Fun PvE game"? Yeah, how dare they show up.
Then again, having two different game modes is only a net positive for a game, and I find it quite selfish of people to throw fits trying to deny having two modes be present.

Originally posted by Grimmsch:

and I don't see how those three points of view contradict each other.

Well for starters, PvP isn't a social experience, it's confrontational/antagonistic so you can't legitimately call it a "Social interaction" when you shoot at people.
PvP and PvEvP are two different things. One implies a blend of the two elements, while the other is just that.

Frankly the only time I played a PvEvP experience that I enjoyed and would want more of, was when I was playing Destiny 2's Gambit mode. Unfortunately there aren't that many games that try doing that same thing. Exoprimal was one, but that game was a bit flawed from the ground up.

[preach]

Originally posted by Kalgert:

Originally posted by Grimmsch:

I see mostly PvE "fanatics" plastered all over the steam forum

You mean the original audience, before the game pivoted into a PvP game because the developers can't make a "Fun PvE game"? Yeah, how dare they show up.
Then again, having two different game modes is only a net positive for a game, and I find it quite selfish of people to throw fits trying to deny having two modes be present.

Originally posted by Grimmsch:

and I don't see how those three points of view contradict each other.

Well for starters, PvP isn't a social experience, it's confrontational/antagonistic so you can't legitimately call it a "Social interaction" when you shoot at people.
PvP and PvEvP are two different things. One implies a blend of the two elements, while the other is just that.

Frankly the only time I played a PvEvP experience that I enjoyed and would want more of, was when I was playing Destiny 2's Gambit mode. Unfortunately there aren't that many games that try doing that same thing. Exoprimal was one, but that game was a bit flawed from the ground up.

A PvE mode isn't a net positive. Splitting the playerbase changes the games experience by a lot. Escape from Tarkov doesn't feel the same since PvE mode was released.

[Kalgert]

Originally posted by preach:

A PvE mode isn't a net positive. Splitting the playerbase changes the games experience by a lot.

No, it does not. And don't at me with this "Splitting the playerbase" spiel, as it's an illegitimate argument.

The playerbase is not split. There is "The playerbase" and then there are the people who would want to get in on the game, but don't want to because of the PvP element. If anything, that is what's splitting the playerbase, not a hypothetical PvE mode.

Originally posted by preach:

Escape from Tarkov doesn't feel the same since PvE mode was released.

People were saying the same about Sea of Thieves, how the game will be drastically changed and how "Splitting the playerbase" will be the death of the game.
Aaaaaand.... The game's just fine. The people who want a PvEvP/PvP experience have their game in its pristine state, while people who don't want that have Safer Seas. And the world is at peace.

[Service Dog Murderer]

here's a compromise, go play a PvE game
PvE ruined Tarkov and it would ruin this too

[Kalgert]

Originally posted by Service Dog Murderer:

PvE ruined Tarkov and it would ruin this too

How?

[SolutionS]

Originally posted by Fx3.髭男:

Only bothered to play 3 matches this play test....

This was clear by your suggestions and your feed back is irrelevant and more of an opinion. Sounds like you just can't handle losing tbh.

Originally posted by Kalgert:

Originally posted by Grimmsch:

I see mostly PvE "fanatics" plastered all over the steam forum

You mean the original audience

They made the shift in direction public years ago.. move on the game just isn't for you. And gambit mode was / is the least played mode in destiny, let not emulate that at all.

[Service Dog Murderer]

Originally posted by Kalgert:

Originally posted by Service Dog Murderer:

PvE ruined Tarkov and it would ruin this too

How?

Split the player base, increased queue times and decreased lobby size
This game will never ever be a PvE game, go play something else

[Kalgert]

Originally posted by SolutionS:

move on the game just isn't for you..

Condescending gnat.

Originally posted by SolutionS:

And gambit mode was / is the least played mode in destiny, let not emulate that at all.

Why not? It's a very good game mode. Just because "MUH NUMBERS!" say that not many people play it doesn't mean it shouldn't be emulated.

Then again, "low numbers" doesn't mean much considering Destiny 2 is a real dumpsterfire these days, so it's rather expected that not many people would want to play the game as a whole, let alone a game mode.

[Fx3.髭男]

Originally posted by SolutionS:

Originally posted by Fx3.髭男:

Only bothered to play 3 matches this play test....

This was clear by your suggestions and your feed back is irrelevant and more of an opinion. Sounds like you just can't handle losing tbh.

I didn't lose though. I just didn't see any real game play changes or any reason to keep playing a game that isn't interesting or challenging to me. I'm sorry that's too hard for your pea brain to grasp. You can take a look in my public profile and library though and see how many hours I put into competitive games.

So either:

A. You're right, I'm so bad! Which begs the question, if I can't handle losing why did I spend literally years worth of time in competitive games? At best you lack critical thinking, and at worst you're dumb as ♥♥♥♥.

B. You're wrong, and dumb as ♥♥♥♥.

You are sort of right though. The game isn't for me. I don't get off on winning easy fights/killing people at a disadvantage. Dota was my competitive game of choice because it was balanced and fair. I averaged somewhere around rank 1500 NA. That's in the top .02% of NA players. Basically, I'm a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ nerd and I'm very good at games and playing against trash like you just puts me to sleep. It's not that I can't handle losing, it's that you make winning feel like a boring waste of time.

[Fx3.髭男]

And I don't understand why people are interpreting my post to mean two different game modes. One game mode that actually awards and incentives cooperation, while simultaneously adding a much higher risk to unprovoked aggression but higher reward when said aggression pays off. I really don't think it's that complicated to grasp.

Anyway I can't take anymore of these absolute brainless comments from ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ apes who get personally offended when they have to put more effort into thinking than "see moving thing, shoot moving thing"

Originally posted by Service Dog Murderer:

here's a compromise, go play a PvE game
PvE ruined Tarkov and it would ruin this too

Originally posted by Father President:

The only thing that needs rectification is how they will handle cheaters.

I addressed this more in the first playtest, and to some degree here.

Originally posted by Father President:

PvE would be too boring here.

I play Helldivers 2