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Your plan of "Let's just stand still, and see how much experience we get" is completely ignoring the actual mechanics of the map. No other map has Koroma's Mana baseline, unless you get it through an Arma Dio, which goes against the argument of "I shouldn't have to bring specific things to level." spouted earlier. Nor does it have the sheer quantity of extra weapons.
If you actually play the map properly, and explore it while picking up the items like you're supposed to, you easily end up with equal, or more EXP than you would on a normal map. So yes. It very much is a skill issue.
And if you're talking about the map's EXP before you complete it, and Koroma doesn't exist, your entire argument falls flat anyway, because you're talking about an incomplete map. Of course it's going to have less things to do.
Nothing you just posted is relevant to the argument that enemies drop less XP on the Castlevania map.
I never said there was less to do, I said there was less XP. Items to enhance growth are irrelevant.
The mechanics of the map don't matter. The ways to stack growth do not matter. I am not saying you should be able to stand there and do nothing and have an amazing run at level 200.
I am saying that non-boss enemies provide less XP on this map, than any other map.
If you stack growth on Castlevania and end up at a high level, great. But the growth stat isn't what's being discussed. The chests you get are not being discussed. The boss crests, the items on the map, pickups you can get, arcana and darkana you can take...are not being discussed. Because they are irrelevant to what's being discussed. The difficulty of the map and the ability to beat or even thrive in it are not being discussed. The quality of the map is not being discussed.
The XP gain from enemy kills is objectively lower than on other maps. That is what's being brought up and ignored by people that want to fight with OP days later.
I often end my runs in the mid-100s because I like to stack curse and I like to hunt bosses, and I win the vast majority of my runs with a full set of fully evolved weapons, often with more than six weapons. But this also is irrelevant, because this is not what's being discussed.
I'm not even saying it's a problem that it's this way, and frankly I love and support the lower XP because it makes me consider my actions a little more than I would elsewhere.
But none of that changes the fact that there is, again objectively, less XP on this map.
You can sit there and scream at me about items and arcana and stuff until you're blue in the face or how bad other people are at the game, but it has absolutely nothing to do with anything OP or I brought up. It's ultimately derailing from the basic point that this map hands out less XP on average than other maps.
Literally the first post, complaining that getting a character off the ground takes ages. You are the one derailing the conversation, by pretending the mechanics of a map don't matter to the character progress in said map. I don't know why you're white knighting for an OP who decided to course correct his whining into "I'm just noticing the difference!" but it's not a good look.
The problem with that is that it's still proving OP right. It does take more effort to get a build going. Map items and chests are good and all, but getting that thing you want early on can be a bit of a struggle. Yes, you can come up with builds that bypass character quirks or weird starting weapons, but it does still take more effort to get the build started if you aren't using map items, and some characters (looking at you, Charlotte) do take more effort than usual to get to a state where they're thriving and not just picking up random little wads of XP and hoping something good comes off the next level.
I don't know why you're defending people whose solution are to play the game in easy mode and call "skill issue" on people that don't. It's not a good look. Neither is the inability to handle someone not entirely enjoying an aspect of something you like, to the point that you're name-calling days after the thread was started.
Honestly, I think a mod needed to lock it days ago. I'll give you that you're at least having a discussion about it, but most the people that agree with you want to just name-call and run.
So I did a hard comparison a posts ago and the difference is negligible. Identical builds that were basically within 5 levels of each other the entire run. Does the map have less xp per enemy, probably, but it also has more enemies per minute. Both builds were at almost the exact same level at 9 minutes. Classic maps also pad XP drops in the last 5-3 minutes which greatly skews any reasonable comparison of XP rates. Take the same build to every map and you'll likely get the same level rate over the duration regardless of XP or spawn rate.
Unless you are going out of your way to not kill enemies, you'll finish at roughly the same level as any other map that doesn't inflate in the last few minutes.
It's just that this stage's EXP curve behaves different than other stages. Nothing more, nothing less.
tldr; Yes its lower, but its not the lowest or unplayable low
The build
-All powerups enabled
-Disable all pickups and passives not used in this build. Vaccum, Chicken, and Gold should be the only pickups available
-Juste, taking Reflecttion, Raging Fire, Gale Force, Fulgor, and Keremit in that exact order for the first levels
-Darkana X as first Arcana, just to get a steady supply of Vaaccum to try and get exact level numbers at kill and time breakpoints. Even with Arma and Cany Boxes disabled, they still spawn, so we'll use one Arma later
-Prioritised levelling Vibhuti and getting evolve passives
-Grab Attract orb from Arma once you obtained all evolve passives
-Put one level in to Keremit
-Only select passive levels on level up. All items will be maxed at level 45 due to his passive ability.
-Arcana I as 2nd Arcana, and Arcana VI as 3rd Acana.
Basically stood still once everything was leveled/evolved only moving to grab chests or Vaccums
Here is the baseline for kills, levels, and time. Also notid any accidental chest pickups or early evolution for maps.
Ode
15188, 44, 10:06
49995, 105, 25:00
59782, 124, 29:30
61910, 128, 30:00
Here is the comparison of the base game maps
Forest
9431, 44, 7:06
15419, 54, 9:53
49928, 117, 21:30
60005, 132, 27:27
65737, 167, 29:39
66226, 171, 30:00
Library
8960, 44, 7:23
15553, 55, 9:49
49591, 110, 21:48
59853, 126, 25:46
67817, 159, 29:41
68081, 165, 30:00
Plant
All Chests Evolve
8863, 45, 6:09
16037, 65, 9:18
49606, 131, 19:44
59795, 145, 22:55
63022, 150, 23:53
68334, 158, 25:18
75087, 179, 29:30
75225, 180, 30:00
Tower
15886, 46, 8:45
18417, 49, 9:17
50266, 95, 15:43
59964, 110, 18:22
90387, 140, 25:32
102025, 158, 29:30
102232, 161, 30:00
Capella
All chest evolve
Evolve Whip 3 min
9901, 43, 8:05
10626, 46, 8:30
15430, 58, 11:25
50778, 131, 24:10
58877, 145, 27:16
61846, 159, 29:40
62385, 163, 30:00
Here is all the DLC maps
Foresci
Chest 2 min, 1 item
11783, 45, 7:19
15574, 52, 8:44
50488, 110, 18:14
59444, 121, 20:19
61648, 126, 20:45
76577, 146, 25:07
83285, 153, 28:09 DNF
Abyss
All chest evolve
Chest 1min 1 item
Evolve Whip 5min
8648, 44, 6:19
15374, 64, 9:15
49941, 129, 18:29
60638, 145, 21:25
76770, 166, 25:06
85965, 178, 28:25 DNF
Moonspell
All chest evolve
8372, 45, 7:03
15334, 63, 1022
49912, 122, 22:58
60283, 138, 27:41
62220, 143, 28:29 DNF
Among Us
Chest 1 min, 1 item
10311, 46, 6:20
15865, 55, 8:30
49284, 115, 21:20
59185, 128, 25:17
63206, 134, 26:38
72343, 164, 29:38
73452, 175, 30:06
Contra,
Chest at 2 min 3 items
10754, 44, 10:19
16931, 51, 12:35
49640, 103, 25:00
57450, 106, 30:06
If we ignore all the different ways to increase items on the maps. its about the same as Gallo Tower and Contra in terms of time or kills to get a build finished. Both honestly feeling way worse than Ode. Pretty much every map has you somewhere between 120 and 140 by the 25 minute mark.
Its probably on the lower end compared to the other maps, but its not the lowest or an unplayable difference like some people were stating it was. For getting builds off the ground, the 4 DNF maps are way worse will how brutal the starts of them are. With exception of Abyss they took multiple attempts to not fail within the first 2 minutes. Even Forest managed to take a life early
Better damage means more XP as seen on the early evolution maps, and this map probably has the highest potential damage compared to any other map with how many extra weapons you can get.
This is a run I did purely to check what a "normal" run would actually be like on Ode.
No arcanas except for Mad Groove.
Retired Poe.
Hyper/Limit Break (didn't come into play)/Arcana/Random Events/I only used one reroll on a single level up, and didn't kill ANY bosses. (I used a few rerolls to scroll through all arcana once, before deciding that none of them seemed worthwhile for a test run.)
The only lucky things that happened were 2 or 3 5 chests + actually getting a duplicator from a random drop when I otherwise wouldn't have been able to evolve all of my weapons.
Intentionally didn't use rerolls, fight bosses, use other arcana or use meta options aside from using the in-map arma dios to pick tome/box/crown/skull, in order to minimize the impact of RNG.
Retired Poe picked as Garlic is objectively the best starting weapon in a 0 egg run, character is strong but nowhere near meta, making it a fairly good representation of what a run would look like under the assumption of "normal play".
I... really don't see what the issue is here.
Early boss fights + relevant normal arcana would've easily gotten this run above level 200.
Meta weapons would've also done it, and both combined probably would've pushed 250.
Non-Darkasso meta arcana + meta weapons probably could easily push to 300+, and a character with genuinely good scaling passives on top of that....
Use of Bolero and Hail (without Crystal Cries) could easily push into the 300-400 range.
Exp gains seem perfectly fine. BTW, I was level 10 before the 30 second mark of this run, and atlanteans died around the 12 minute mark. Mana was only in-map item I grabbed before 6/6 weapons and items. Merchant wasn't used at all.
(Yes, Star Flail is abnormally strong. But I still don't consider it anywhere near the level of the actual meta weapon options. Yes, Garlic is 100% meta early game, but that's specifically why I chose retired poe - I wanted to remove elements of randomness or unfamiliarity with the newer weapons from the equation as much as possible, while keeping the elements of randomness that a NORMAL run would actually have (thus why I didn't use Juste).)
Honestly, these complaints just feel to me like people are either having legit skill issues, or playing terrible characters/builds that they don't realize are terrible, more than actually being an issue.
I've seen more than one topic about this. And it just doesn't feel true at all.
The benefit from mad groove will easily be offset by killing bosses. You can still beeline to mana within the first couple minutes no problem, which won't affect your leveling speed THAT much. (lower early game exp gain in exchange for much higher mid-game exp gain.)
Like 80% of the bosses can be spawned and then kited across the map without issue just like Atlanteans can, so killing them doesn't really take "time" - Just the couple in actual boss rooms and the ones with projectiles. Abbadon can be fought once you get most evos and 2/3 boss room ones probably aren't actually worth the time it takes to kill them.
So yeah, my conclusion is: Moot point, doesn't matter at all. It only becomes an issue if you intentionally restrict yourself from various things beyond "not using the stuff that blatantly breaks the game", at which point, "Hello, welcome to challenge running. Making the game difficult via self-imposed restrictions based off of personal or community ideas, concepts and desires is literally the entire point, and game balance should never be influenced by nor considered in regards to, challenge runs. Yours truly, a professional challenge runner.".
I understand not wanting to use stuff like Darkassos (though Bolero... <.< just makes the game feel better...), but restricting yourself beyond "no darkassos, no sigma/megalos/ Dracula /etc." is uh... 100% just considered a challenge run at that point. And yes, it's still considered a challenge run even if you're able to faceroll content.