Did the DLC weapons change up the meta? Are any worth taking over the basics?

[Mr.PotatoFudge]

Generally last I checked the best weapons pre DLC
(assuming you are using a 0 egg character and not doing special builds like maximum curse + cats)
Are the Song of Mana and Santa Water
So the question is are any of the DLC weapons on the same level?

The Summon Night weapon felt terrible to use but other than that im not really sure how judge them all.

[CyanDoomdragon]

Silver Wind is good, it's similar to Song of Mana but horizontal instead of vertical (it trades range for being able to heal you) and the evolved form lowers enemy defence instead of speed.

[Daunmi]

Originally posted by Mr.PotatoFudge:

The Summon Night weapon felt terrible to use but other than that im not really sure how judge them all.

Summon Night is kind of fiddly.

Echo Night, its evolution, is a screen clearer that hits everything, does decent damage, and leaves behind a damaging zone and the combo just requires Duplicator which is almost always worth getting anyway. I don't know whether you'd consider it better than something like La Borra, but it's good once you get there.

[Dan_The_Noob]

the balls from the big mongoose carrying his wang over his shoulder are basically super garlic

[Ghennkin]

Echo Night evo was the only one I really liked. Some are awkward and only hit things on the edges (or corners) the screen like Four Seasons and Boo Roo. Four Seasons does sneakily high amounts of dps. The bubbles are awful. The rest are pretty 'meh' or just terrible. 108 Bocca is terrible. If J'Odore went through multiple enemies, it might be decent. Sadly, it doesn't. It is another solution to kill Death without needing to get all the laurel and lancet items. You still need 1 of them to kill Death in a sane amount of time.

[themazingness]

I like having Echo Night and La Robba on the same build. It helps reduce the mobs down to size.

[Lod101]

Originally posted by Dan_The_Noob:

the balls from the big mongoose carrying his wang over his shoulder are basically super garlic

that is not his wang, but eh close enough

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Ghennkin:

Echo Night evo was the only one I really liked. Some are awkward and only hit things on the edges (or corners) the screen like Four Seasons and Boo Roo. Four Seasons does sneakily high amounts of dps. The bubbles are awful. The rest are pretty 'meh' or just terrible. 108 Bocca is terrible. If J'Odore went through multiple enemies, it might be decent. Sadly, it doesn't. It is another solution to kill Death without needing to get all the laurel and lancet items. You still need 1 of them to kill Death in a sane amount of time.

You should try Four Seasons' evolution some time...

[Mr.PotatoFudge]

Yeah i tried the upgraded Summon Night and the full screen coverage was neat but it was agony to start out with

Upgraded Four Seasons felt like the Fireworks weapon. Strong but a bit random

really cool animation and sounds though

[FaeAlicia]

Four Seasons and its evolution aren't technically random, but I can see how it can feel like it. Top-left, top-right, bottom-left, bottom-right, and then center if it's evolved. The cycle can definitely throw people off for those that are used to weapons that are either always going a specific direction or are always completely random. I've found the damage output from it to be *massive* to the point where on runs with limit break enabled, I could go with just that weapon and the entire screen would be empty by the end. It just killed the enemies that fast.

Also, once you get the hang of the pattern, it becomes a lot easier to use than Summon Night imo. Summon Night's weird spacing always seems to throw me off for some reason. Four/Wicked Seasons seems to destroy framerates a lot faster, though. I think I get something like 15 FPS once all bullet hell has been achieved in any run where I don't take it, but closer to 7-9 FPS if I take Four/Wicked Seasons. XD

As mentioned, Silver Wind is also really good. It uses the same HP regen heart item for evolution like the garlic, and since it also heals you like the garlic, I've used it as a drop-in replacement for the garlic on a few occasions. The only word of caution I have is that it starts out with a small number of projectiles, so it can be less helpful in the beginning compared to the constant 360-degree coverage that the garlic gives.

[Zelph]

Originally posted by Ailesha:

Also, once you get the hang of the pattern, it becomes a lot easier to use than Summon Night imo. Summon Night's weird spacing always seems to throw me off for some reason. Four/Wicked Seasons seems to destroy framerates a lot faster, though. I think I get something like 15 FPS once all bullet hell has been achieved in any run where I don't take it, but closer to 7-9 FPS if I take Four/Wicked Seasons. XD

Honestly, summon night only really seems nice when evolved, its pretty meh until then.

The weirdest weapon to me is the new sword, muramasa hurting you makes regen necessary. But it seems like it does a lot of damage? Would have to play around with it more to know for sure.

[Aristocratic Cthulhu]

J'Odore completely trivializes several waves and utterly cucks red reaper, making it a good alternative to Laurel that also deals damage. Not to mention that it uses Attractorb for the evolution, an item that is generally easy to slot into your build even if you don't use Santa Water and which will pull double duty if you do.

[Mr.PotatoFudge]

Bumping for the new DLC weapons. I tried out the S magic weapon and it didn't feel that powerful.

[themazingness]

Originally posted by Mr.PotatoFudge:

Bumping for the new DLC weapons. I tried out the S magic weapon and it didn't feel that powerful.

I feel like they're overpowered. It probably depends on the build. My early runs with the new DLC didn't feel all that powerful with them, but after combining my usual playstyle rather than the playstyle for unlocking stuff, they really started to shine.

[Mr.PotatoFudge]

Huh despite not feeling the sword to be that strong it out dpsed Santa water which usually never happens.

[Galactus]

the evolution of the dlc sword is retaliation damage so you can scale up to insane damage numbers with the retaliation arcana