Vampire Survivors - 吸血鬼幸存者

Vampire Survivors - 吸血鬼幸存者

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Tomos 2022 年 2 月 25 日 下午 5:47
Does Spinach do anything?
Since the damage numbers are fake, does Spinach actually do anything other than raise the visual numbers? Some enemies take 1 or 2 hits from the Garlic regardless of damage numbers, for instance.

Edit: My example for what I'm talking about


Here's how to replicate - Remove might bonuses. Play as Poe. You can kill Bats on the first stage with 0 damage sometimes. The Zombies take 2 Garlic hits, and 1 Bible hit, regardless of damage.

Edit 2: Got my answer.

Damage numbers are faked by +-5 as per https://vampire-survivors.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon

Spinach does affect this base value, making Garlic go from 5 to 5.5 with level 1 Spinach (and no other might bonuses)
最后由 Tomos 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 20 日 上午 11:27
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 30 条留言
Ame-kun 2022 年 4 月 17 日 下午 7:11 
I mean, if someone wants to go deep dive into the code and figure out how display numbers work, I'd be very curious to see what they turn up!
Jason 2022 年 4 月 17 日 下午 7:41 
引用自 Thunderclaude
I'm curious to a nugget of truth that may be in this claim that damage numbers are fake. My level 70ish Pugnala with upgraded guns, the lasers were doing around 57-62 damage to enemies in the library. At level 200+, where she would have had +130% more might from her leveling passive, the lasers were only doing about 61-67 damage, which is much less than I would expect.
pistols damage scales on revivals.
最后由 Jason 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 17 日 下午 7:43
Soft Lockpick 2022 年 4 月 17 日 下午 7:44 
1) It's an early access game. Rather than saying the numbers are "fake" wouldn't it make more sense to say there's a bug?

2) Fractional damage exists. Toastie can survive a hit when armored up against weaker foes. for example. The minimum damage value may be 0.5 damage.

3) Spinach pretty good.
Minizem 2022 年 4 月 17 日 下午 8:01 
引用自 JasOn
引用自 Thunderclaude
I'm curious to a nugget of truth that may be in this claim that damage numbers are fake. My level 70ish Pugnala with upgraded guns, the lasers were doing around 57-62 damage to enemies in the library. At level 200+, where she would have had +130% more might from her leveling passive, the lasers were only doing about 61-67 damage, which is much less than I would expect.
pistols damage scales on revivals.
Revivals are just additional damage to the base. Spinach still buffs it.
Tomos 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 5:03 
引用自 Soft Lockpick
1) It's an early access game. Rather than saying the numbers are "fake" wouldn't it make more sense to say there's a bug?

2) Fractional damage exists. Toastie can survive a hit when armored up against weaker foes. for example. The minimum damage value may be 0.5 damage.

3) Spinach pretty good.

Maybe there's a bug, sure. But I've already listed out the steps necessary to reproduce what I'm seeing and it's been there since the beginning.
Soft Lockpick 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 5:15 
引用自 Kris DETERMINATION
引用自 Soft Lockpick
1) It's an early access game. Rather than saying the numbers are "fake" wouldn't it make more sense to say there's a bug?

2) Fractional damage exists. Toastie can survive a hit when armored up against weaker foes. for example. The minimum damage value may be 0.5 damage.

3) Spinach pretty good.

Maybe there's a bug, sure. But I've already listed out the steps necessary to reproduce what I'm seeing and it's been there since the beginning.

And likely explanations have been given based on Toastie. Plus early access.

I'm not saying it isn't happening, I'm saying your interpretation of what's happening may be a little off. And your assumption of intent is definitely based on nothing but speculation.
Tomos 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 6:44 
引用自 Soft Lockpick
引用自 Kris DETERMINATION

Maybe there's a bug, sure. But I've already listed out the steps necessary to reproduce what I'm seeing and it's been there since the beginning.

And likely explanations have been given based on Toastie. Plus early access.

I'm not saying it isn't happening, I'm saying your interpretation of what's happening may be a little off. And your assumption of intent is definitely based on nothing but speculation.

They are likely, but it's also a common tactic. People like seeing varying numbers even if they don't exist. Here's a reddit post showing that garlic consistently does 6.3 damage and the bible 12.5 behind the scenes and recorded on the end screen, regardless of what the numbers appear in game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VampireSurvivors/comments/snhd1a/psa_the_damage_screen_is_lying_to_you/
Soft Lockpick 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 7:14 
It would take more work to code a separation between damage dealt and damage shown to the player than it would to just show the real numbers. Far easier to just make the real numbers things you think will satisfy players.

I'm not saying it's impossible, it definitely could be done. I'm saying you'd be stupid to do it. There's no gain.
Tomos 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 7:35 
引用自 Soft Lockpick
It would take more work to code a separation between damage dealt and damage shown to the player than it would to just show the real numbers. Far easier to just make the real numbers things you think will satisfy players.

I'm not saying it's impossible, it definitely could be done. I'm saying you'd be stupid to do it. There's no gain.

I've coded, and it would only be slightly harder/easier. It's really simple to do:
displayDamageNumber(weaponDamage + Random(-5,5))

That there is no gain is also a lie - part of game development is making a pleasing experience for the user, and random damage numbers look more fun. The whole point of video games is to create an illusion that a collection of 1's and 0's is actually a skeleton or whatever.

As an example, fighting games do this a lot, where the last 5% of your visual health bar represents 20% of your actual HP, because looking like you're in that critical state makes the fight more exciting.
最后由 Tomos 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 7:35
Soft Lockpick 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 8:06 
I didn't say it was difficult to do, I said it was extra unnecessary work. And it is.

It isn't a lie that there's no gain. For every player you might make some tiny fraction of a bit happier (if any at all) in this game you'd piss off players who will not like that the data they are given to make decisions is inaccurate.

I fundamentally disagree with you on what works and doesn't in a game like this. This isn't a one on one fighting game. The screen gets so busy you can't even see the numbers half the time.
hellatze 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 8:17 
引用自 Stanis23
?

Spinach works normally, I'm not even sure what give you the impression the numbers are fake. No point to show them in the first place if they are.

Also that's one bizarre example. Say enemy has 100 hp. Weapon does 50 damage. Now with Spinach +50% damage it does 75 damage. And guess what? It both needs two hits to kill that enemy. The damage number isn't fake it's just math.
that means do spinach worth to have ?

simply as that
Raineh Daze 2022 年 4 月 18 日 上午 11:07 
引用自 Minizem
引用自 JasOn
pistols damage scales on revivals.
Revivals are just additional damage to the base. Spinach still buffs it.

Is the revival bonus damage like the soul eater bonus damage? i.e. unaffected by might. If the entire weapon is like that, could make things weird.
Tomos 2022 年 4 月 20 日 上午 9:57 
引用自 Soft Lockpick
I didn't say it was difficult to do, I said it was extra unnecessary work. And it is.

It isn't a lie that there's no gain. For every player you might make some tiny fraction of a bit happier (if any at all) in this game you'd piss off players who will not like that the data they are given to make decisions is inaccurate.

I fundamentally disagree with you on what works and doesn't in a game like this. This isn't a one on one fighting game. The screen gets so busy you can't even see the numbers half the time.


https://vampire-survivors.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon Please read the special note for Base Damage.

Note: The damage displayed with the "Damage Numbers" option ticked shows a randomized value within ±5 of the scaled base damage, but this is only a visual feature and the damage dealt by a weapon is always the same.

It does answer my question - Spinach does alter the damage properly, and the illusion just made me wonder.
最后由 Tomos 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 20 日 上午 9:58
Soft Lockpick 2022 年 4 月 20 日 上午 11:12 
None of that rebuts anything.

It is still unnecessary extra work to have done.

There's no gain. That he did extra unnecessary work for no gain doesn't prove anything other than he either shares your belief or it's groundwork for some later feature.
TemmieNeko 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 12:04 
引用自 Kris DETERMINATION
Since the damage numbers are fake, does Spinach actually do anything other than raise the visual numbers? Some enemies take 1 or 2 hits from the Garlic regardless of damage numbers, for instance.

Edit: My example for what I'm talking about


Here's how to replicate - Remove might bonuses. Play as Poe. You can kill Bats on the first stage with 0 damage sometimes. The Zombies take 2 Garlic hits, and 1 Bible hit, regardless of damage.

Edit 2: Got my answer.

Damage numbers are faked by +-5 as per https://vampire-survivors.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon

Spinach does affect this base value, making Garlic go from 5 to 5.5 with level 1 Spinach (and no other might bonuses)
10 percent of 10 is 1.
10 percent of 5 is .5
there's no way you're ever going to see the damage until it's actually high enough in the first place.
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发帖日期: 2022 年 2 月 25 日 下午 5:47
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