Armor protection vs bullets, someone explain??

[Blinkicide]

Sorry, I've tried to understand the armor mechanic but I don't get it.

First, I see some posters saying the there's a percent reduction to "physical" damage, however armor does not list any physical damage reduction, it lists "melee". So unless something is lost in translation, I assume that's melee only damage reduction.

Second, the tutorial says a penetration 40 bullet has a 10 percent chance of penetrating being blocked by class 4 armor. Ok, that's a high penetration bullet so the fact it rarely blocks it makes some sense, but I still got no idea how much an armor class will block lower penetration bullets, nor is it clear what it means when armor is penetrated, does the armor block all damage when not penetrated, no damage when penetrated or something else???

[EGG]

You know I don't really understand either from my experience the armor has a ''Health Bar" that you cant see and once you get shot enough It doesn't protect you for the rest of the Raid until you Repair it back in the Bunker.

They Should atleast add a Shield Bar under the Health Bar to Solve some confusion.

[blackvoid]

May be dev will elaborate on the formula. I think i was shot by PPSh (low pen smg) in Seva suit (class 4 or 5) and it did not last long. Almost didn't take any damage though.

Armor state might affect % degradation to all values due to damage. So, if your armor has high fragility, carry armor repair kit with you.

[Swift-Li]

Just get the higher class one and don't ask anymore. :)

[Asherogar]

No idea about the formula and what the pen/armor class numbers are (would like to look at them tho), but I can answer some questions:

1. Armor has a durability (health) bar. Any hit, no matter penetration or not, will lower the durability. Every ammo has "dur burn" stat, that shows how much dmg to armor durability it inflicts and every armor has a "fragility" stat that tells how much of this dmg armor receives. Idk if actual dmg of the bullet matters, if not then high RPM weapons might just shred armor even if they don't have enough penetration.

2. If armor blocks shot - you receive no dmg, only your armor durability is lowered. If bullet pierces armor, you receive dmg AND your armor loses durability.

3. Idk if there's other states besides penteration/no penetration. Like what if Penetration/Armor class difference is too great? Like shooting a 11 pen ammo at class 4 armor. In the forest, my class 3 armor can shrug a lot of bullets from bandits, but at the same time class 4 in the Mall quite often gets shredded 100 to 0 in a single burst from a hunter. Maybe armor recieves additional dmg if it's penetrated?

[Asherogar]

Originally posted by Dreadknight:

Just get the higher class one and don't ask anymore. :)

Higher class ones have terrible fragility. Literally not a single suit with less then 50. Is it really worth it? Without proper understanding of how armor works it's impossible to say. Meanwhile HP is extremely easy to replenish, you just need to avoid being one tapped. And boosting your hp to 100+ is a very good way at doing so.

[Valkovski]

Originally posted by Asherogar:

Originally posted by Dreadknight:

Just get the higher class one and don't ask anymore. :)

Higher class ones have terrible fragility. Literally not a single suit with less then 50. Is it really worth it? Without proper understanding of how armor works it's impossible to say. Meanwhile HP is extremely easy to replenish, you just need to avoid being one tapped. And boosting your hp to 100+ is a very good way at doing so.

Yes. The way fragility works, as i understand it, is the higher it is the more dmg armour absorbs (and gets demaged) and the lesser goes into your health. Yes, you will pay more for repairs but in turn it'll protect more. That's why Kibba's armour has 75 fragility and is prob the best

[theartofscience]

Originally posted by Asherogar:

No idea about the formula and what the pen/armor class numbers are (would like to look at them tho), but I can answer some questions:

1. Armor has a durability (health) bar. Any hit, no matter penetration or not, will lower the durability. Every ammo has "dur burn" stat, that shows how much dmg to armor durability it inflicts and every armor has a "fragility" stat that tells how much of this dmg armor receives.

The "durability burn" you are referring to on ammo is the amount of durability damage each bullet does to the weapon firing it. For a .003% durability burn ammo each bullet will lower the guns durability by .003%.

The fragility stat is how much durability damage each soaked point of damage does to worn armor. A high fragility is not good all it means is that you will spend more on repairs.

[blackvoid]

Originally posted by theartofscience:

The fragility stat is how much durability damage each soaked point of damage does to worn armor. A high fragility is not good all it means is that you will spend more on repairs.

My guess, "durability burn" x "fragility" = % damage to armor. The actual weapon damage is damage to HP when the bullet gets through.

[Valkovski]

we are fixated on the fragility , but the OP asked about protection And i am also very curious to know

[Paw]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/zetzgeigcd?lang=it

Here is a graph that explains it.
Armor does not reduce damage, but rather prevents damage.

What affects a bullet from penetrating through your armor would be durability, armor class, and the penetration stat of a bullet.

You must have both high armor class and durability to prevent bullets from damaging you.

[Cobalt Wolf]

The problem with fragility for the SEVA suit and Kibba's armor isn't really the cost in my mind. By the time you have either of them, money isn't very hard to come by. I think the biggest problem is that they will protect you from a few big hits and then that's it, they're done until you get back to the bunker. Lower fragility armor's may not block high caliber hits reliably (or at all), but they will protect you from mutant attacks and lower caliber bullets for longer, which seems far more worth it.

I may get shot at by a hunter with a Mosin or SVD, but I will probably live as long as I had enough health to start with, and getting hit a second time isn't likely because of how slow they are. But if you get bum rushed by ghouls, blinks, or a hunter with a P90, the longer lasting armor will help you survive the fight to heal after.

So far, I think the best armor is Arman's. I got it from the very first time he died. I don't know if you are guaranteed to get his armor on the first kill, but it would definitely be worth farming him in the Makeshift Camp for his armor. Better protection than most, and still only 37 fragility. Just a shame it's so hard to find him. Guy sprints like he's Usain Bolt.

[Swift-Li]

Originally posted by Cobalt Wolf:

The problem with fragility for the SEVA suit and Kibba's armor isn't really the cost in my mind. By the time you have either of them, money isn't very hard to come by. I think the biggest problem is that they will protect you from a few big hits and then that's it, they're done until you get back to the bunker. Lower fragility armor's may not block high caliber hits reliably (or at all), but they will protect you from mutant attacks and lower caliber bullets for longer, which seems far more worth it.

I may get shot at by a hunter with a Mosin or SVD, but I will probably live as long as I had enough health to start with, and getting hit a second time isn't likely because of how slow they are. But if you get bum rushed by ghouls, blinks, or a hunter with a P90, the longer lasting armor will help you survive the fight to heal after.

So far, I think the best armor is Arman's. I got it from the very first time he died. I don't know if you are guaranteed to get his armor on the first kill, but it would definitely be worth farming him in the Makeshift Camp for his armor. Better protection than most, and still only 37 fragility. Just a shame it's so hard to find him. Guy sprints like he's Usain Bolt.

Not a guaranteed drop. I found his dead body. No armor.

[David]

Originally posted by PAWKIEN:

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/zetzgeigcd?lang=it
Here is a graph that explains it.
Armor does not reduce damage, but rather prevents damage.
What affects a bullet from penetrating through your armor would be durability, armor class, and the penetration stat of a bullet.
You must have both high armor class and durability to prevent bullets from damaging you.

Perfect answer, thank you.
I'll break it down a little for others. How well an armor protects from bullets is based on its armor class & durability vs their penetration. Damage is either prevented, or presumably you take full damage.

%chance to penetrate an armor goes up sharply as the penetration value reaches 10x the AC, then declines after that, but at that point its at 90+% chance anyway.
As durability declines, the more it drops the faster the armor protections drops. From 50 -> 30% durability is a much bigger change in protection than from 100 - 80% durability.

Examples:

At full durability:
PEN that is 10xAC +12 will always penetrate:
62 pen bullets will always penetrate class 5. e.g. 7.62x51mm M61
52 pen bullets will always penetrate class 4, etc. e.g. 5.56x45mm M995

PEN that is 10xAC will penetrate 90% of the time:
AC 5 will prevent damage 10% of the time from 50 pen bullets.
AC 4 10% from 40 pen, etc. e.g. 5.45x39mm BT

PEN that is 10xAC -8 will penetrate 50% of the time:
AC 5 will prevent damage 50% of the time from 42 pen bullets. e.g. 7.62x51 mm M80
AC 4 will prevent damage 50% of the time from 32 pen bullets. e.g. 7.62x54R mm PS

PEN that is 10xAC -16 will penetrate 10% of the time, and bullets with PEN 10xAC -18 cannot penetrate until they reduce the durability. e.g. 12x70mm SLUG on armor class 4

At half durability(50%):
You can add 11 to these values. So essentially a class 5 armor at 50% durability gives slightly worse protection from bullets as a class 4 armor. This doesn't necessarily mean the class 5 armors are the best, as you also want a low fragility value. Also once an armor hits 50% durability the loss in protection from further hits becomes pretty steep.

At 32% durability it loses another armor class. And as it drops to 0 from there protection from bullets sharply declines to nothing at all.

tldr;
at full durability an armor's AC gives immunity to bullets 20 pen lower than its ACx10, and at half durability it gives immunity to bullets 10 pen lower than its ACx10. Anything higher than that has a chance to penetrate and deal presumably full damage.
Anecdotes from players suggest that high fragility armors lose durability quickly, so the best middleground might possibly be an armor with high class and low fragility.

[Asherogar]

Originally posted by theartofscience:

The "durability burn" you are referring to on ammo is the amount of durability damage each bullet does to the weapon firing it. For a .003% durability burn ammo each bullet will lower the guns durability by .003%.

The fragility stat is how much durability damage each soaked point of damage does to worn armor. A high fragility is not good all it means is that you will spend more on repairs.

Okay, my bad then. I was so fixated on armor durability, that i forgot guns have one too.

Originally posted by Valkovski:

Yes. The way fragility works, as i understand it, is the higher it is the more dmg armour absorbs (and gets demaged) and the lesser goes into your health. Yes, you will pay more for repairs but in turn it'll protect more. That's why Kibba's armour has 75 fragility and is prob the best

No, that's 100% not how armor works. It soaks all dmg, if bullet failed to penetrate armor, even if Fragility stat is below 10. As others pointed out, Fragility is indeed just the % of soaked dmg that is transferred to armor durability. This is why something like Kibba armor or Seva suit sucks with their 65 and 75 Fragility respectively. They're literally 2-3 hits away from being shredded and then you're left tanking hits with your health alone. Arman Suit is indeed the best armor in the game. I'll test Crimson class 5 a bit later, but for now Arman it is.

[David]

Originally posted by Asherogar:

Arman Suit is indeed the best armor in the game. I'll test Crimson class 5 a bit later, but for now Arman it is.

Interested in the results of the test. I'm eyeing up the class 5s because I don't eat many bullets so I just need protection from 1 big hit - I might carry an armor repair kit with me.

If there's a chance you can test the basic AFZ-1 from green army too. It's class 4 with a low fragility value.