Disappointing Story?

[Lord_Sabnock]

I have to say that story is a real disappointment. every story element is telegraphed horribly with every twist and turn being so obvious i had to wear dark glasses to improve the experience. Plus the amount of times you hit a failure point only to be given an overly stupid and weak work around numbers in the to many.

Acting is OK, apart from the main villain, who acts like a spoilt child, but never truly engaging and i felt no love for any of them.

Pointless chests and work benches.

The skill tree is fun though.

[Ulfsark]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย SeedsFree Tibet:

70 bucks and not even multiplayer. LOL Tf is steam thinking

The fact you think Steam created this game tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

[CJM]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย turfish:

I will say the story was a lot less focused compared to the first, the game starts with a heist and a reference to Saw Gerrera which means he's still alive! Do I get to go rob more stuff and take down the Empire?! Nope, I go to Koboh and start a literal side quest to find some planet?

I get the idea that "Oh look, a planet out of reach from the empire!" But I do not think that it should've went this way. It's already got a focus from the start, but then we end up on a side quest, a literal side quest. Might I add, if the Empire ever found out that they were in Tanalorr, they could literally camp the Abyss with a fleet and just wait for anything to come out and then just blow it up. It's safe until you decide to go back.

^ I like this guy.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

story arc was seriously telegraphed and if people didn't see that "twist" coming then people must be wearing blinkers. i said it the moment we first met him. Again there was more than just that arc.

I think you missed the twist. This is where I really start leaning on the Rorschach test as a descriptor. If you believe the story was "telegraphed", then you missed the story.

Which is, from what I took away from the story, the "meta" of the story.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

Vader was, AGAIN, just a token appearance. if he was behind it all why was there not more of him. but again i knew he'd turn up in the game for 5 minutes at some point.

I disagree on the point that Vader showing up was a token appearance. Once you connect Vader and Bode story arcs, Vader suddenly has a reason to be there beyond a token appearance.

It really gets into the nitty gritty of story telling and deconstruction.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Malker:

With how the game ended, it has potential to be gritty. Provided a certain character is still part of the plot.

Do we want "gritty" as in "Han shot first", or do we want "nitty gritty"?

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ELMatadario:

also they gave us (star wars fans) exactly what we needed, you know what i'm talking about.

*Sideways glance*

Meta instead of Lore???

I'm scratching my head here.

[Lord_Sabnock]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CJM:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย turfish:

I will say the story was a lot less focused compared to the first, the game starts with a heist and a reference to Saw Gerrera which means he's still alive! Do I get to go rob more stuff and take down the Empire?! Nope, I go to Koboh and start a literal side quest to find some planet?

I get the idea that "Oh look, a planet out of reach from the empire!" But I do not think that it should've went this way. It's already got a focus from the start, but then we end up on a side quest, a literal side quest. Might I add, if the Empire ever found out that they were in Tanalorr, they could literally camp the Abyss with a fleet and just wait for anything to come out and then just blow it up. It's safe until you decide to go back.

^ I like this guy.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

story arc was seriously telegraphed and if people didn't see that "twist" coming then people must be wearing blinkers. i said it the moment we first met him. Again there was more than just that arc.

I think you missed the twist. This is where I really start leaning on the Rorschach test as a descriptor. If you believe the story was "telegraphed", then you missed the story.

Which is, from what I took away from the story, the "meta" of the story.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

Vader was, AGAIN, just a token appearance. if he was behind it all why was there not more of him. but again i knew he'd turn up in the game for 5 minutes at some point.

I disagree on the point that Vader showing up was a token appearance. Once you connect Vader and Bode story arcs, Vader suddenly has a reason to be there beyond a token appearance.

It really gets into the nitty gritty of story telling and deconstruction.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Malker:

With how the game ended, it has potential to be gritty. Provided a certain character is still part of the plot.

Do we want "gritty" as in "Han shot first", or do we want "nitty gritty"?

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ELMatadario:

also they gave us (star wars fans) exactly what we needed, you know what i'm talking about.

*Sideways glance*

Meta instead of Lore???

I'm scratching my head here.

I got the Bode Story. "As long as dad remains useful". Nothing "Meta" about that. this story arc trope has been used a million times before. As soon as he mentioned he had a daughter it confined my suspicions of him.

as for Vader, the story works with or without him.

and re the ending. it gives me hope that the story can yet be saved

[CJM]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

I got the Bode Story. "As long as dad remains useful". Nothing "Meta" about that. this story arc trope has been used a million times before. As soon as he mentioned he had a daughter it confined my suspicions of him.

What is Episode IV "A New Hope"? It is a fairly simplistic good vs evil fairy tale. The bad guys where helmets to dehumanize them.

Episodes V, VI, I, II, and III serve to humanize Anakin Skywalker.

What is meta is that Star Wars has, as a core part of its "DNA", the element of taking tropes and digging into the nitty gritty. Of questioning itself. You have KOTOR, and then you have KOTOR 2.

"Confirming your suspicions" means that you missed the subtext of Cal "giving into the dark side". Cal betrays Bode. The path Cal is on, is strikingly similar to the path of Dagan Gera.

But that misses the even more core element: Cal's romance with Merrin, forbidden by the Jedi Order which Cal was a part of.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

as for Vader, the story works with or without him.

Maybe the story works without Vader, but I don't think it does.

So much of the story is about digging into who Vader is as a character. The majority of the story depends heavily on the subtext and context of Vader's story arc.

Who is Darth Vader? Who is Bode Akuna? Who is Cal Kestis? Who is Cere Junda?

The game is set in a universe with a Light Side and a Dark Side, and then leaves you wondering which is which.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

and re the ending. it gives me hope that the story can yet be saved

That is a take...

What do you want from the story?

[Raptek]

I refuse to pay 70$ for a game because of the inflation. I will patiently wait :)

[ELMatadario]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Raptek:

I refuse to pay 70$ for a game because of the inflation. I will patiently wait :)

i bought 15 euros of ea play pro and finished the game on it, you should try

[ELMatadario]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CJM:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

I got the Bode Story. "As long as dad remains useful". Nothing "Meta" about that. this story arc trope has been used a million times before. As soon as he mentioned he had a daughter it confined my suspicions of him.

What is Episode IV "A New Hope"? It is a fairly simplistic good vs evil fairy tale. The bad guys where helmets to dehumanize them.

Episodes V, VI, I, II, and III serve to humanize Anakin Skywalker.

What is meta is that Star Wars has, as a core part of its "DNA", the element of taking tropes and digging into the nitty gritty. Of questioning itself. You have KOTOR, and then you have KOTOR 2.

"Confirming your suspicions" means that you missed the subtext of Cal "giving into the dark side". Cal betrays Bode. The path Cal is on, is strikingly similar to the path of Dagan Gera.

But that misses the even more core element: Cal's romance with Merrin, forbidden by the Jedi Order which Cal was a part of.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

as for Vader, the story works with or without him.

Maybe the story works without Vader, but I don't think it does.

So much of the story is about digging into who Vader is as a character. The majority of the story depends heavily on the subtext and context of Vader's story arc.

Who is Darth Vader? Who is Bode Akuna? Who is Cal Kestis? Who is Cere Junda?

The game is set in a universe with a Light Side and a Dark Side, and then leaves you wondering which is which.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

and re the ending. it gives me hope that the story can yet be saved

That is a take...

What do you want from the story?

i agree with everything you said

[CJM]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ELMatadario:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CJM:

a take...

i agree with everything you said

I am not sure, but it might be better to have people disagree with me. There is plenty of fodder for discussion.

Bode is Han Solo, before Greedo stopped caring about the decor of the local cantina. The grittier character people want to see, a survivor.

Bode is Vader, without the direct manipulations of Palpatine.

Bode is a human villain, and not some "evil guy" in a mask/helmet. Lord_Sabnock points out the recurrence of "as long as the father is useful".

Is Bode in control?

[ELMatadario]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CJM:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ELMatadario:

i agree with everything you said

I am not sure, but it might be better to have people disagree with me. There is plenty of fodder for discussion.

Bode is Han Solo, before Greedo stopped caring about the decor of the local cantina. The grittier character people want to see, a survivor.

Bode is Vader, without the direct manipulations of Palpatine.

Bode is a human villain, and not some "evil guy" in a mask/helmet. Lord_Sabnock points out the recurrence of "as long as the father is useful".

Is Bode in control?

bode is just like cal, another survivor who chose not to fight the empire but escape from it (to tanalorr obv), as easy as that

[Lord_Sabnock]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ELMatadario:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CJM:

I am not sure, but it might be better to have people disagree with me. There is plenty of fodder for discussion.

Bode is Han Solo, before Greedo stopped caring about the decor of the local cantina. The grittier character people want to see, a survivor.

Bode is Vader, without the direct manipulations of Palpatine.

Bode is a human villain, and not some "evil guy" in a mask/helmet. Lord_Sabnock points out the recurrence of "as long as the father is useful".

Is Bode in control?

bode is just like cal, another survivor who chose not to fight the empire but escape from it (to tanalorr obv), as easy as that

And at the cost of everybody else suffering. a selfish individual who seemed to me didn't really even care about his daughter that much at the end either. he certainly treated her badly. Plus she didn't seem to miss him at all after the final encounter.

[CJM]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

And at the cost of everybody else suffering. a selfish individual who seemed to me didn't really even care about his daughter that much at the end either.

Another point where I say it is a Rorschach test.

Bode was worried that an Imperial spy could infiltrate the Hidden Path's base, and order an imperial strike. This is something that could end up worse if the spy/traitor actually had knowledge of how to get to Tanalorr. What if that spy waited for the Hidden Path to relocate to Tanalorr, what would happen to Kata then?

How could he trust Cal to not let an imperial spy get the location of Tanalorr?

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

he certainly treated her badly.

Not something I noticed. ???

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

Plus she didn't seem to miss him at all after the final encounter.

Yeah, I got nothing.

[Mighty.Madman]

I agree it was a bit disappointing, but it wasn't bad at all. There were some really good highlights.

Anyway I've just finished replaying Jedi Fallen Order and the story aspect is so much ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ better. In terms of gameplay Survivor is better not even close imo

[Lord_Sabnock]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CJM:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

And at the cost of everybody else suffering. a selfish individual who seemed to me didn't really even care about his daughter that much at the end either.

Another point where I say it is a Rorschach test.

Bode was worried that an Imperial spy could infiltrate the Hidden Path's base, and order an imperial strike. This is something that could end up worse if the spy/traitor actually had knowledge of how to get to Tanalorr. What if that spy waited for the Hidden Path to relocate to Tanalorr, what would happen to Kata then?

How could he trust Cal to not let an imperial spy get the location of Tanalorr?

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

he certainly treated her badly.

Not something I noticed. ???

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

Plus she didn't seem to miss him at all after the final encounter.

Yeah, I got nothing. [/quote]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

he certainly treated her badly.

Not something I noticed. ???

He seemed very controlling of her, even using his force powers on her. he ignored her pleading to listen to Cal but was so lost in his own agenda he could see or hear anything other than what he wanted to.

Plus his plan for just the two of them to live on Tanalor alone was extremely shortsighted and unrealistic. why wouldn't he want the protection and comfort of being part of the proposed Hidden Path colony?

[CJM]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

He seemed very controlling of her, even using his force powers on her. he ignored her pleading to listen to Cal but was so lost in his own agenda he could see or hear anything other than what he wanted to.

I never saw him use his force powers on her until the end battle. Even then it is questionable whether it is being abusive or protective. It is not good to have a well meaning child underfoot when lightsabers are swinging...

I suppose that is similar to my focus on the red lightsaber not actually belonging to Bode, but it being Dagan Gera's lightsaber. For me this is a "don't things at face value" element. A.k.a. "Many of the truths we cling to, depend greatly on our own point of view." A.k.a a Rorschach test.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Lord_Sabnock:

Plus his plan for just the two of them to live on Tanalor alone was extremely shortsighted and unrealistic. why wouldn't he want the protection and comfort of being part of the proposed Hidden Path colony?

As I described previously, The Hidden Path colony doesn't provide comfort and protection. A Jedi, Cal Kestis, going around causing trouble is going to draw unwanted attention. Especially when that Jedi's stated goals are to build an army to overthrow the Empire and restore the old Jedi Order. It is inevitable that an imperial spy will be recruited by Cal, who will then leak the location of the Hidden Path, and Bode knows this to be a fact.

It is about the same "shortsighted and unrealistic" as being on Tanlorr alone. Except, that there is a certain wisdom in waiting out the "dark times". The more the Emperor tightens his grip, the more star systems will slip through his fingers. The Empire exists in a moment of peace following a war, a generation or two later will want freedom and not peace. Cal is waiting on the Hidden Path, Bode is waiting on the Galaxy at large.

[Cal]

The reason why it was bland and boring is because they chose to use the high republic as the setting for the game and literally no one cares about the high republic at this point.