God Exploration is Bad in This Game.

[The Seventh Son]

EDIT: I'm not responding to "Just turn on waypoints" or "you can't use maps." I talk about a lot more than waypoints here, and I'm getting through the game regardless of waypoints.

There's no compass, no minimap, just a map with an arrow on it. Why? It's been 20 years since we were making open world games like that. For good reason.

You even give us an option for waypoints, but it's useless. It's often inaccurate, prone to put us in pathing loops that lead us no where, and it's not even an active UI element, it sits on your pause map. I'm getting through the game, I'm just not enjoying this aspect of it.


Then your non-verbal communication is inconsistent. Some vines are climbable, some aren't. Some gratings are climbable, some aren't. Fall distance is 100% dependent on whether the dev wants you to go that way or not.

I'm constantly jumping into pits, at walls, and cutting random objects that can't be cut cuz there is ZERO consistency on what can be interacted with and what can't.

I mean after a certain spoilery boss, the way point tells you to leave the building, then go back the way you can for a bit, till it tells you to go back to the building. The entire time there's a piece of damaged building you can climb, but there's no reason to think I can even climb onto it or that's what I need to do next. The game doesn't show you the path out through the cutscene, there's no reliable waypoint, they aren't using a color scheme, or using the same environmental object ever time.

This is just really poor quest communication between devs and players and it adds on hours to the play time in the worst way. Add a color, an active waypoint, or just make the waypoint system already in place actually do what it's supposed to.

[Avalanche]

It would be nice to have a minimap to be honest, or to have a button i can press to ping the map so to speak and see where the waypoint actively is, so i can make sure to go in that general direction.

But the main thing that i so wanted in Fallen Order, Jedi Survivor has.....Fast Travel. :-)

[The Seventh Son]

Originally posted by Wagg:

some people are just directionally challenged and need help.

Big facts. I didn't even really point out that the "accessibility" option isn't really accessible. It doesn't really help those who get turned around easily.

[nakoda]

no i totally get that, all it does is point straight at the target, it doesn't account for the back and forth or platforming in between.

some people find it easy, some people don't, and that's what all the options are for.

i tease earlier about the skill issue, but i totally get it. it .. is .. kind of a skill issue.

[viktorhallo]

i found the navigation equally hard as the combat on grandmaster difficulty. navigation is definantly hard for modern standards, especially for finding collectibles.

[The Seventh Son]

Originally posted by Wagg:

no i totally get that, all it does is point straight at the target, it doesn't account for the back and forth or platforming in between.

some people find it easy, some people don't, and that's what all the options are for.

i tease earlier about the skill issue, but i totally get it. it .. is .. kind of a skill issue. :mrb_boris:

It's more than that. As I talked about, following it sent me on a loop. I'm trying not to spoil, but you go into a building on Koboh for a boss fight. At the end of the boss fight my map showed me to exit the building and go back out into the completed dungeon, then when I got to a point, it told me to go back to the building. I go back in the building and it's telling me to go back out the way I came again. The actual way out was on a beam on the other side of the building.

That's not a skill issue, that's a dev issue.

[Larry]

I would actually argue the game is very consistent in the terrain you can climb or cut through to venture around; these things always look the same based on the biome you're currently in. Every platforming object or terrain that Cal can interact with are all marked with either distinct texturing or color and will always look like that. This is so the player can scan the environment and notice these details in order to solve exploration puzzles. They don't actually want you getting lost trying to climb or slice everything.

While the world looks very nice and detailed, that also means the designers have to be able to still point you in the right direction with just environment (this is if they're not going to give you GUI navigation, which they didn't). Since this is basically a really pretty Metroid game there's still going to be curated paths that you're intended to take, even if they're side routes to treasures.
Having fall kill volumes at inconvenient spots is a bit of a nuisance at times, though, for sure.
Also, all climbable things appear on the map pretty clearly.

The map pins suck balls, though, agreed.

[Odyssey]

tbh the game is honestly pretty easy to maneuver around without a minimap and if you do need to know where something is just open the map. the terrain markers like vines and pathways to walk are very consistent i dont think the games map is large enough to even warrant a minimap anyways, theres also some side quest that turn off waypoints for w.e reason tbh id say thats the most annoying thing.

[Dessolos]

Only time I even use the map is just to check if im near the mission objective when going to a new area but once i enter the new area i dont even open it really at all. I just explore while moving on with the mission.

[runamonk]

Kids these days.

[Jeremydudeman81]

Level design makes navigation a challenge, which is ultra refreshing considering today's "copy and paste" open world AAA games.

People still complain. This is why the majority of games are hand holding slogs that never really make you have to think.

[Yeyo]

Fully agree with OP, the holo map is chaotic at best........even with nav markers (beacons) on (which do nothing actually since you need to open the map to check it

[Plastic War Beast]

Meh, it's pretty good.

[ForestRaptor]

The game doesn't hold your hand when it comes to exploration. You use your eyes, environment analysis tool (brain powah) and figure out your steps. I very much enjoy it.

This is an exploration action game afterall....

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by Verios44:

I remember when games had no waypoints. Heck had no map. Expected you to figure it out.

I miss those days.

Some games were better for it. Some weren't.

[Tox Laximus]

It's one of the reasons I refunded because wandering around aimlessly pisses me off, lag was the main reason.