Is the combat system Good or Bad?

[M.D. Charcoal]

I wish I could do a vote, because I'd love to have statistics from as many players as possible. If you had to simply give the combat system (and that alone) in this game a thumbs up or down, which would you choose?

[The nubinator]

I really liked the old one. This one is a simplification of the old one going more into special moves rather than natural blocking/dodging/evading.

So its more like any other RPG game it seems.


A lot of ppl didnt like the old one since they felt it was difficult and some people had issues with it locking onto the wrong target something I never really had a major problem with. But yes, it was super hard, esp on hardcor mode.

[goot]

very good

[zeanomourph]

IMO the first game's combat system was better; more advanced and required more skill. This game, it's still fun and still good, but it's been significantly 'dumbed down' and made easier, probably because it was widely complained about by skill-less dummies that the first game's combat was "too hard"

[Axeface]

I think the KCD1 was better. I am still enjoying this one though.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by The nubinator:

I really liked the old one. This one is a simplification of the old one going more into special moves rather than natural blocking/dodging/evading.

In what way is it a simplification? Master Strikes actually take effort and clinches aren't just auto-wins. The first game's system was almost entirely RNG driven (except for clinch and master strike) and that RNG heavily punished offense.

I really don't see how KCD 2's combat is anything but an improvement.

[The nubinator]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

Originally posted by The nubinator:

I really liked the old one. This one is a simplification of the old one going more into special moves rather than natural blocking/dodging/evading.

In what way is it a simplification? Master Strikes actually take effort and clinches aren't just auto-wins. The first game's system was almost entirely RNG driven (except for clinch and master strike) and that RNG heavily punished offense.

I really don't see how KCD 2's combat is anything but an improvement.

I barely ever cheesed my enemies using master strikes. I just mainly blocked or riposted, dodged, did good aiming strikes etc.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by zeanomourph:

IMO the first game's combat system was better; more advanced and required more skill."

What part of combat in KCD 1 involved skill that KCD 2 does not?

I'll take this even further: What part of KCD 1's combat involved any skill *at all*?

Combos were useless because enemies would just master strike or dodge and feints were useless because it just made it *more* likely for the enemy to master strike or dodge. Attack direction was completely meaningless and enemies had no concept of being "mixed up" or anything like that. All combat just boiled down to spamming clinch and master strike.

[unknown]

I like the way they they changed master strikes and the changes to fighting groups of enemies and how smoothly it flows. Masterstrikes were the thing that ruinted the combat in the first game. Actually the best way to fix the first game was to make masterstrikeks only work if your sword was at the right angle in referance to the enemy sword. This made them less common for both you and the enemy and you really had to pay attention to your positioning and made compos more usable in the first game. They seem to have implemented the work of that mod here, but the change where to trigger a master strike you had to press the attack button was pure genius. That really made masterstrikes feel better and also made them reasonable to predict. It basically took away that aspect of being forced to play defensively and allowing for aggressive play-styles.

I do not like the removal of not only the bottom 2 zones, but the fact that I could stab in 6 different places. It was really fun to use the stab mechanic to target specific weak points in armor. For full on nights I would go after the wrists and armpits. I think it was simplified a bit too much. I also do not like that master-strikes are only limited to swords. I understand that they were trying to get rid of the issue the first game had where the mace was basically the best weapon always and swords became useless by comparisons and it was a valiant attempt to make the weapons feel different and I do think they succeeded there. But I do like the complexity of the first game and feel a bit let down on this game. Especially when you level up enough you still essentially are unstoppable and wind up not needing to use any of the fancy tricks and can basically go full chad and kill everyone in the enemy army as a 1 man army against 50+ foes.

It feels better, but I really think the first was more engaging with the mods I installed. Though the perfect system would be a combination of the 2 systems.

[Mouse Rat]

Originally posted by The nubinator:

Originally posted by Forblaze:

In what way is it a simplification? Master Strikes actually take effort and clinches aren't just auto-wins. The first game's system was almost entirely RNG driven (except for clinch and master strike) and that RNG heavily punished offense.

I really don't see how KCD 2's combat is anything but an improvement.

I barely ever cheesed my enemies using master strikes. I just mainly blocked or riposted, dodged, did good aiming strikes etc.

I've recently refinished the kcd1 and kcd2 combat feels like an direct upgrade.
one was clunky, this is still clunky but ..less.
win in my book.

[The nubinator]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

Originally posted by zeanomourph:

IMO the first game's combat system was better; more advanced and required more skill."

What part of combat in KCD 1 involved skill that KCD 2 does not?

I'll take this even further: What part of KCD 1's combat involved any skill *at all*?

Combos were useless because enemies would just master strike or dodge and feints were useless because it just made it *more* likely for the enemy to master strike or dodge. Attack direction was completely meaningless and enemies had no concept of being "mixed up" or anything like that. All combat just boiled down to spamming clinch and master strike.

Dont use masterstrikes and clinches and the difference is night and day between this and that game. 1 had more aggressive enemies, more attack directions, stabbing possibilties. Blockng felt natural and not like a mini game.

People even modded out masterstrikes out of the game.

Now its just dumbed down for us who didnt cheese through the entire game.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by The nubinator:

I barely ever cheesed my enemies using master strikes. I just mainly blocked or riposted, dodged, did good aiming strikes etc.

What is a "good aiming strike"?

Attack direction was not a factor in how an enemy would respond to your attack *at all*. They had a percent chance to react to each of your swings with each type of action (get hit, block, perfect block, master strike, dodge). That was it. The only way to influence these outcomes were to feint, which removed block from the list of possible responses (making perfect block, master strike, and dodge m ore likely in the process). There was no way to just cleverly get around someone's guard unless their animations got caught on something and prevented them from responding.

If you weren't spamming master strike or clinch, you were just out-statting your enemy.

[Silverborn]

Originally posted by unknown:

I like the way they they changed master strikes and the changes to fighting groups of enemies and how smoothly it flows. Masterstrikes were the thing that ruinted the combat in the first game. Actually the best way to fix the first game was to make masterstrikeks only work if your sword was at the right angle in referance to the enemy sword. This made them less common for both you and the enemy and you really had to pay attention to your positioning and made compos more usable in the first game. They seem to have implemented the work of that mod here, but the change where to trigger a master strike you had to press the attack button was pure genius. That really made masterstrikes feel better and also made them reasonable to predict. It basically took away that aspect of being forced to play defensively and allowing for aggressive play-styles.

I do not like the removal of not only the bottom 2 zones, but the fact that I could stab in 6 different places. It was really fun to use the stab mechanic to target specific weak points in armor. For full on nights I would go after the wrists and armpits. I think it was simplified a bit too much. I also do not like that master-strikes are only limited to swords. I understand that they were trying to get rid of the issue the first game had where the mace was basically the best weapon always and swords became useless by comparisons and it was a valiant attempt to make the weapons feel different and I do think they succeeded there. But I do like the complexity of the first game and feel a bit let down on this game. Especially when you level up enough you still essentially are unstoppable and wind up not needing to use any of the fancy tricks and can basically go full chad and kill everyone in the enemy army as a 1 man army against 50+ foes.

It feels better, but I really think the first was more engaging with the mods I installed. Though the perfect system would be a combination of the 2 systems.

"With the mods I had installed"

- Skyrim is a 7/10 experience by now, without any mods. And people are going to complain the next TES isn't as good, as Skyrim with Mods.
- S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 is a 8/10 game, and not as good as the previous stalkers, because they had mods that mad the game a lot better.

And while yes, this game has made a few things simpler. For most players, they will get their ass handed to them in the early hours of the game as well.

Animals, finally have decent A.I.

You can finally sandbox/play around with the A.I. of enemies.

There is some depth to stealth finally.

Side professions, more so alchemy/poisons actually make you feel overpowered (15 seconds to finish of a full hp target, with a single arrow hit). Stealing finally is layered, completely possible never to get caught and earn you more than 100k in materials before the first half of the game.

[Mörkö]

Originally posted by zeanomourph:

IMO the first game's combat system was better; more advanced and required more skill. This game, it's still fun and still good, but it's been significantly 'dumbed down' and made easier, probably because it was widely complained about by skill-less dummies that the first game's combat was "too hard"

Is that not what difficulty setting is for?

[[NCE] Mykero]

I like the new system but it’s too easy to defeat enemies, even groups. I’m hoping enemies get a lot harder in the second map

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by NCE Mykero:

I like the new system but it’s too easy to defeat enemies, even groups. I’m hoping enemies get a lot harder in the second map

This was the case in the first game as well, so I doubt it it'll improve. The system really just doesn't have very good bones. It mostly just looks flashy.