Medieval LGBTQ+ (???)

[ott_morozok]

First, I want to say that I am not gay and do not belong to the LGBT community at all. Like many others, I am a little annoyed by the overrepresentation of various interesting groups in the media or entertainment. But over the past week, I realized that Asmongold and anti-woke fans are no better than those toxic red-haired Karens with a master's degree in Gender Studies gained from Berkeley.

Second, the game hasn't been released yet and we don't know much. Vavra could have lied just to kek in the Internet (the guy is almost 50 years old). Let's just wait for the release of the game, in the trailers of which there have never been gay scenes.

I'll start with gays in the Middle Ages. Yes, they were there, you may not believe it, but if you look at the biography of the King of England Edward 2, you can understand that he had too many male favorites and the nobility did not like it. Homosexuals were also in Ancient Greece, including Sparta and Athens. In general, homosexual relations between animals (people are animals too) were, are and will always be, here everything depends on genes, and not on "woke propaganda". If you believe that if you are shown a man's unshaven ass and you become gay, then I have some bad news for you.

Homosexuals (or sodomites) were condemned in the Middle Ages, because at that time people thought and lived by completely different rules. The influence of the Roman Church (a monopolist in matters of faith in the 15th century) on the population cannot be overestimated. Emperors, kings, dukes, and generally all noble and common people depended on the Pope. In the Middle Ages, almost every person had an overlord. A knight had a peasant who grew wheat for the knight, the knight fought for the baron, the baron looked after the estates of the count, the count led the troops into attack for the king, and the king obeyed the Pope, who was God's viceroy on Earth. So the church demanded that people obey the Bible, which forbade homosexual relations. Why? In the 15th century in Europe, a maximum of 3-4 grains grew from one planted grain (now this number is 50-60). A peasant planted 600 pounds of grain, received 1800 pounds as a result, he will sow 600 pounds next year, give 600 to his overlord and leave 600 for food for his family. The peasant's family had to be as large as possible, since a lot of people are needed for the farm. The peasant was obliged to cultivate his field, the field of his lord, chop wood, go to the city to sell/buy something, repair his tools himself (even ordinary knives were passed from father to son), graze his cattle if there was any, and so on. For all this, at least a wife and many children were needed. Children of peasants generally matured early (usually by the age of 7-8), since they had to help their parents, we can see medieval images of children either as babies or as adults, but short. The church and feudal lords needed as many people as possible to develop their fiefdoms, so Catholicism had a negative attitude towards those who did not want to continue reproducing.

95% of the population of Europe in the 15th century were peasants. 3-4% lived in cities, 1% of clergy and a very small part of the nobility. It is difficult for us in the 21st century to understand the world order of a peasant, but I will try. Remember the map of KCD 1. One small town of Rattay, a small settlement of Sazava, several castles and a dozen villages. This is ALL that a typical peasant from Skalitz saw in his life. Beyond this territory was terra incognita, people made up horror stories about dense forests and monsters that lived there. Yes, they knew that there was Rome, Prague or Kuttenberg, but only a few people could visit these places in their lives (mostly traders who lived in cities). An ordinary peasant saw 150-200 people from his village and several hundred in the nearest town in his entire life. There was no personal life, all the neighbors knew you, everyone talked about everyone, gossiped. Public opinion forced a person to obey the "rules". You simply could not have a gay relationship in a small village. But in a big city it was possible. In a large city, by medieval standards, fewer people knew you by sight, there were a huge number of traders from other cities, travelers, noble people. Craftsmen spent time not in the fresh air with their families, but in their own house or tavern. To survive, it was not necessary to have 5 sons and 3 daughters. Fewer people knew about your private life and what was going on behind a huge closed door.

If Henry really did become bi-curious, it wasn't necessarily because of the "agenda", it was just that the big city gave people privacy, and privacy and the absence of any censure didn't lead to consequences and shame. And if there is a choice, to ♥♥♥♥ a man in the ass or not, then just choose the option that you like. After all, it is not you who is having sex, but Henry.

[Eagle Scout]

this is, i must admit, a very well thought out and well written post, well done

[Bordric]

Edward was slandered by his enemies. And Hollywood. The wife and her lover made most of that up after deposing him. His son got revenge as a young man.

[Master of Pronouns]

If we are going to have the option in the game to burn alive ♥♥♥♥♥, I’m all in for it.

Remember guys, it’s just a video game, and historically accurate video game. With optional choices. So it shouldn’t be a problem.

[Kulin]

A very pleasant read. But i guess any rational approach is pleasant these days.

A small addition: Henry does not just have gay sex - locked behind multiple dialog leading you there - he has sex with a noble. Hans and his family are leading an entire town and the surrounding villages with almost absolute power, similar to the "police" AND the justice system combined, if you want to compare it today.

Also a addition to becoming "bi curious": who tells us he wasn't always bi? Social pressure like the threat of impending doom from the church and a potential death sentence is a good reason for people to not follow their urges. That doesn't mean they aren't there. And you can life with a woman for 30 years and never touch a dude and still be Bisexual.

[ArthurDent]

Originally posted by ott_morozok:

First, I want to say that I am not gay and do not belong to the LGBT community at all.

Sure. If you say so.
Listen, i didn't read your little novella, tbh. But the whole medieval/christian argument doesn't fly in the least. I find it funny how obvious it is when someone searched the web and wikipedia to quickly slap together a lenghty historical argument when the reality is, gay people existest for as long as humans existet. Actually, scratch that, homosexuality exists as long as species that reproduce sexually exist (even penguins do it and they lay eggs, those filthy little rascals).
You can talk about kings and the pope and medieval times all you want, doesn't change the fact that gays existed in every era of mankinds history.
Hell, last time i checked, the catholic church, historically strict when it comes to homosexuality turned out to be a huge pedophile network.

[Noname Killer]

Yes. I think, most people could sign this as a very good comment.

In my opinion: there is no need to be worry about that. If you have a choice and if there would be a correct behavior of the NPC, than it would be ok. If there were a good story about that... good quests and a very logical story about henry (and or others who are homosexual) it would be great. It would not be great for just the reason "it is ingame", but it would be great for the most important reason: storytelling and immersion. If the story feels real, the reactions feel real and if it makes sense... all of this would make this game in some kind a better game...
I like good stories. Give me some. :-D

Btw. in games i often choose the NPC companions neither for their sex nor for their race. I just choose them for this one reason: "Do they give me the best bonus for this game?"
So my characters are homosexual or bi. I don't care, because I know who I am. The character is someone else.

And no: I am not homosexual. I don't like, when men kiss each other... but: other people - other lifes. That is tolerance. Tolerance is not waving the LTBQ-flags it is just tolerating/ignoring the others way of life.

[ott_morozok]

Read about Oscar Wilde. The guy had a wife and kids, but he still had sex with some English lord. Was he also susceptible to woke propaganda?!

If you want to burn a person and you live in the Middle Ages, then the most you can do is complain to a priest. And even then, it is unlikely that a sodomite will be burned. He may be asked to confess, go to a monastery, or sit in prison for several months

[Колбаска]

Originally posted by ott_morozok:

First, I want to say that I am not gay and do not belong to the LGBT community at all. Like many others, I am a little annoyed by the overrepresentation of various interesting groups in the media or entertainment. But over the past week, I realized that Asmongold and anti-woke fans are no better than those toxic red-haired Karens with a master's degree in Gender Studies gained from Berkeley.

Second, the game hasn't been released yet and we don't know much. Vavra could have lied just to kek in the Internet (the guy is almost 50 years old). Let's just wait for the release of the game, in the trailers of which there have never been gay scenes.

I'll start with gays in the Middle Ages. Yes, they were there, you may not believe it, but if you look at the biography of the King of England Edward 2, you can understand that he had too many male favorites and the nobility did not like it. Homosexuals were also in Ancient Greece, including Sparta and Athens. In general, homosexual relations between animals (people are animals too) were, are and will always be, here everything depends on genes, and not on "woke propaganda". If you believe that if you are shown a man's unshaven ass and you become gay, then I have some bad news for you.

Homosexuals (or sodomites) were condemned in the Middle Ages, because at that time people thought and lived by completely different rules. The influence of the Roman Church (a monopolist in matters of faith in the 15th century) on the population cannot be overestimated. Emperors, kings, dukes, and generally all noble and common people depended on the Pope. In the Middle Ages, almost every person had an overlord. A knight had a peasant who grew wheat for the knight, the knight fought for the baron, the baron looked after the estates of the count, the count led the troops into attack for the king, and the king obeyed the Pope, who was God's viceroy on Earth. So the church demanded that people obey the Bible, which forbade homosexual relations. Why? In the 15th century in Europe, a maximum of 3-4 grains grew from one planted grain (now this number is 50-60). A peasant planted 600 pounds of grain, received 1800 pounds as a result, he will sow 600 pounds next year, give 600 to his overlord and leave 600 for food for his family. The peasant's family had to be as large as possible, since a lot of people are needed for the farm. The peasant was obliged to cultivate his field, the field of his lord, chop wood, go to the city to sell/buy something, repair his tools himself (even ordinary knives were passed from father to son), graze his cattle if there was any, and so on. For all this, at least a wife and many children were needed. Children of peasants generally matured early (usually by the age of 7-8), since they had to help their parents, we can see medieval images of children either as babies or as adults, but short. The church and feudal lords needed as many people as possible to develop their fiefdoms, so Catholicism had a negative attitude towards those who did not want to continue reproducing.

95% of the population of Europe in the 15th century were peasants. 3-4% lived in cities, 1% of clergy and a very small part of the nobility. It is difficult for us in the 21st century to understand the world order of a peasant, but I will try. Remember the map of KCD 1. One small town of Rattay, a small settlement of Sazava, several castles and a dozen villages. This is ALL that a typical peasant from Skalitz saw in his life. Beyond this territory was terra incognita, people made up horror stories about dense forests and monsters that lived there. Yes, they knew that there was Rome, Prague or Kuttenberg, but only a few people could visit these places in their lives (mostly traders who lived in cities). An ordinary peasant saw 150-200 people from his village and several hundred in the nearest town in his entire life. There was no personal life, all the neighbors knew you, everyone talked about everyone, gossiped. Public opinion forced a person to obey the "rules". You simply could not have a gay relationship in a small village. But in a big city it was possible. In a large city, by medieval standards, fewer people knew you by sight, there were a huge number of traders from other cities, travelers, noble people. Craftsmen spent time not in the fresh air with their families, but in their own house or tavern. To survive, it was not necessary to have 5 sons and 3 daughters. Fewer people knew about your private life and what was going on behind a huge closed door.

If Henry really did become bi-curious, it wasn't necessarily because of the "agenda", it was just that the big city gave people privacy, and privacy and the absence of any censure didn't lead to consequences and shame. And if there is a choice, to ♥♥♥♥ a man in the ass or not, then just choose the option that you like. After all, it is not you who is having sex, but Henry.

The post is quite interesting and there is a lot of truth in it. I could also add details about notable people and the fact that educational institutions where boys and girls were taught separately also contributed to this, for example, if we talk about Russia. There really were years when something like this happened. But I also want to add that Henry did not study in such institutions and was raised as the son of a blacksmith. He was an ordinary guy and didn't give any reason for suspicion in the last game. Although he could have had a similar opportunity in the monastery if the developers really wanted to show it. Therefore, I think that this option was introduced forcibly. After all, the game was developed during the years of the greatest influence of the woke culture.

[ott_morozok]

Originally posted by ArthurDent:

Originally posted by ott_morozok:

First, I want to say that I am not gay and do not belong to the LGBT community at all.

Sure. If you say so.
Listen, i didn't read your little novella, tbh.

biggest mistake in this thread

[Player1]

I'm just tired of LGBTQp stuff. I don't want to even have to consider this slop anymore.

[Kulin]

Originally posted by Player1:

I'm just tired of LGBTQp stuff. I don't want to even have to consider this slop anymore.

Not the fault of LGBT+ in my opinion. They didn't stir this ♥♥♥♥ up to epic proportions. The amount of propaganda is so intense that it makes me overthink every show i watch. Is there too much DEI? Was the character placed there with ideological indent?

I can't even watch a show anymore without this kind of intrusive thoughts even though i didn't care at all 2 years ago. This ♥♥♥♥ is really effective at getting the masses riled up.

[ott_morozok]

Originally posted by Колбаска:

He was an ordinary guy and didn't give any reason for suspicion in the last game. Although he could have had a similar opportunity in the monastery if the developers really wanted to show it. Therefore, I think that this option was introduced forcibly. After all, the game was developed during the years of the greatest influence of the woke culture.

1. We played for Henry for a maximum of 2-3 weeks in his short life. We don't know what hobbies he had in childhood, adolescence and what thoughts may come to his mind or came to him earlier. Let the one who considers himself hetero, but has never watched gay porn, throw a stone at me.

2. In the monastery, he had the task of finding and killing Pious. There was no time for gay sex, and the schedule was arranged in such a way that you were never alone. Either you pray, or work, or sleep. That's what monasteries were built for

[Nikonos]

We're still in the 'but it could be possible'-phase.
Next we'll hear about the very real possibilities of extraterrestrials in the early middle ages.

*turns up twilight zone theme*

[Noname Killer]

Originally posted by ott_morozok:

Originally posted by Колбаска:

He was an ordinary guy and didn't give any reason for suspicion in the last game. Although he could have had a similar opportunity in the monastery if the developers really wanted to show it. Therefore, I think that this option was introduced forcibly. After all, the game was developed during the years of the greatest influence of the woke culture.

1. We played for Henry for a maximum of 2-3 weeks in his short life. We don't know what hobbies he had in childhood, adolescence and what thoughts may come to his mind or came to him earlier. Let the one who considers himself hetero, but has never watched gay porn, throw a stone at me.

2. In the monastery, he had the task of finding and killing Pious. There was no time for gay sex, and the schedule was arranged in such a way that you were never alone. Either you pray, or work, or sleep. That's what monasteries were built for

As far as I remember: He had his girlfriend in the intro, he had his romance with his new girl friend, he had a romance with the lady of talmberg,... he made use of the women of the bathhouse....

yes, we didn't see his whole life, but all hints are just straight forward.

But: if and only if he just "tried out", for just a very curious reason... there could be a very little possibility just to be bi... but in my eyes it wouldn't be conform to the told story.

[ott_morozok]

Originally posted by Bordric:

Edward was slandered by his enemies. And Hollywood. The wife and her lover made most of that up after deposing him. His son got revenge as a young man.

You can't make good political propaganda without some truth in it. From the start, Edward II brought back his friend Gaveston and appointed him to high positions in the kingdom. Then Gaveston was killed by the lords, but Edward found a new favorite, Despenser. We don't know for sure if he was a sodomite, but many nobles in the kingdom thought so, so they went over to the side of the daughter of the king of France and Mortimer, betraying their oaths to their king.