The Uncomfortable Truth

[WastingSanity]

The uncomfortable truth is the fact that for years hetero players have been forced to play most RPGs through a certain subculture's lens. Even if we create a character from scratch, that character is going to be bi whether we want them to be or not. This is all to placate or pander to that extreme minority of gamer under the guise of "Player Choice" in the laziest way possible.

We are suppose to suspend disbelief when it comes to fantasy worlds, science fiction, etc. but I find it difficult to get around the fact that my supposed straight character (through "player choice") would consider sleeping with another character of the same sex. As a straight male, I have never once considered being intimate with another man. It never even popped into my head. I've even had gay men hit on me and I turned them down instantly as I informed them I was straight.

With that said, why would a straight character in a game even entertain the idea in dialogues when straight people do not? It should be a instantly decline. Similar to the first Kingdom Come Deliverance. There should be no option available to sleep with a character of the same sex if the player is playing a straight character or a way to decline, rude, polite, etc.

The best way to resolve this issue would be to have players choose their experience at character creation. Choosing either hetero, bi or gay. Yes it would require a bit more work for developers, but as a straight person I am getting tired of playing RPGs through a bi lens.

That brings me to Henry, the last game established him as a character. The developers created a straight white male character. It is obvious through game play and the fact the developers stated as much. The fact that they are now back peddling reminds me of the retcon that Games Workshop did with Warhammer 40k and the Custodes "There were always females in the Custodes." Laughable.

This creates a slippery slope, if KCD2 becomes a hit, other developers/publishers will consider creating games with "player choice" and use popular characters from other franchises. DC, Marvel, Lord of the Rings, etc.

"Gimli isn't bi for Legolas, it is player choice."
https://youtu.be/bawVQ7fkOfA?si=YBROP_AezKdEd8Ak

That is another thing. No more same sex close friendships/friendly rivalries in games without it becoming some weird/creepy romantic situation and then you have to shut down their advances. I've had numerous good friends who are straight men and no one hit on each other. All player companions have become bi in games as straight characters of the same sex hit on the player. This would not happen if they were straight.

Let's stop placating that subculture as it makes up a micro portion of gamers and bring hetero back to gaming. Not the feeble attempt at creating the illusion of being hetero. Most players are smarter than that and simply conceded to the fact that this is how things are. I say no more.

Vote with your wallet.

[Liquid Shadow Cop]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

I've even had gay men hit on me and I turned them down instantly as I informed them I was straight.

You made the choice to turn them down, it was an option for you. I'm pretty sure this means you are bisexual even if you turn down gay advances all your life.

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

This creates a slippery slope, if KCD2 becomes a hit, other developers/publishers will consider creating games with "player choice" and use popular characters from other franchises. DC, Marvel, Lord of the Rings, etc.

Player choice is in KCD2 because it is successful, RPGs benefit from player agency and letting the player play the way they want to experience in, people advocating for less options because they're fragile and sensitive to seeing options they don't like are thankfully the minority which is why developers don't make games with your sensibilities in mind.

[kth]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

The uncomfortable truth is the fact that for years hetero players have been forced to play

I was never forced to play anything, and because what you are saying doesnt apply to me, I didnt read the rest

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

The hetero are still playing games and massively don't give a damn about those issues.
The subculture that despise those games that enhanced player choices to make more characters player sexual represents less than the LGBT subculture group itself.

[WastingSanity]

Originally posted by Liquid Shadow Cop:

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

I've even had gay men hit on me and I turned them down instantly as I informed them I was straight.

You made the choice to turn them down, it was an option for you. I'm pretty sure this means you are bisexual even if you turn down gay advances all your life.

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

This creates a slippery slope, if KCD2 becomes a hit, other developers/publishers will consider creating games with "player choice" and use popular characters from other franchises. DC, Marvel, Lord of the Rings, etc.

Player choice is in KCD2 because it is successful, RPGs benefit from player agency and letting the player play the way they want to experience in, people advocating for less options because they're fragile and sensitive to seeing options they don't like are thankfully the minority which is why developers don't make games with your sensibilities in mind.

No, it was instinctual. The first time a guy hit on me, I was surprised and my natural reaction was so fast it came out "NoI'mstraight." If you were straight, then you would understand.

You missed the point.

[dulany67]

As long as I have a choice, I don't care.

[Babilonio]

It's worse this time because Henry is an established character with a backstory. He is an heterosexual man, it's not realistic for him to suddenly become bisexual one day because "lol RPGs have choices!!1!1!!!"

[Grey Or Gray]

Forced? What games are you playing lol. And in this game it isn't even forced it's completely optional. Just don't click the gay sex button and you'll be fine dude.

[WastingSanity]

Originally posted by kth:

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

The uncomfortable truth is the fact that for years hetero players have been forced to play

I was never forced to play anything, and because what you are saying doesnt apply to me, I didnt read the rest

Then by that reasoning you have shared that you are not hetero.

Originally posted by dulany67:

As long as I have a choice, I don't care.

Well.. you are Henry. So no character creation. You are now playing a character that is part of the LGBT+ community. While playing the game you will have choices. Sure you can romantically pursue only women, but you are still bi and thus the game will remind you that the developers decided your character's sexual orientation. They will do this by prompting you to have intimate relations with men.

[WastingSanity]

Originally posted by Grey Or Gray:

Forced? What games are you playing lol. And in this game it isn't even forced it's completely optional. Just don't click the gay sex button and you'll be fine dude.

When you purchase the game your character's orientation is decided by the devs. They decided that Henry is bi. Thus hetero players are forced to play a bi character.

[dulany67]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

Originally posted by dulany67:

As long as I have a choice, I don't care.

Well.. you are Henry. So no character creation. You are now playing a character that is part of the LGBT+ community. While playing the game you will have choices. Sure you can romantically pursue only women, but you are still bi and thus the game will remind you that the developers decided your character's sexual orientation. They will do this by prompting you to have intimate relations with men.

I'll survive.

[Calubob]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

Originally posted by kth:

I was never forced to play anything, and because what you are saying doesnt apply to me, I didnt read the rest

Then by that reasoning you have shared that you are not hetero.

Originally posted by dulany67:

As long as I have a choice, I don't care.

Well.. you are Henry. So no character creation. You are now playing a character that is part of the LGBT+ community. While playing the game you will have choices. Sure you can romantically pursue only women, but you are still bi and thus the game will remind you that the developers decided your character's sexual orientation. They will do this by prompting you to have intimate relations with men.

If theres no choice how come there is a choice?

[Field Marshal Zhukov]

None of this is factually true.

[Lex Roman]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

The best way to resolve this issue would be to have players choose their experience at character creation. Choosing either hetero, bi or gay. Yes it would require a bit more work for developers, but as a straight person I am getting tired of playing RPGs through a bi lens.

No actually.
The best way to solve this issue is to put all the DEI injection into a DLC, make it available for free and see how many people will install it.

A DLC that is free and installs nothing other than DEI crap would be a real choice. Exactly why the overlords of Warhorse chose to not give us that choice.

[Ellydir]

I think you're making a lot of assumptions.

The number of gay / bi / trans gamers that I know is about comparable to the number of chuds I've seen on this forum. Not really a micro portion. Are they a minority in the wider gaming community? Sure. But so are you.

Yet you're assuming that the vast majority of gamers share your opinions on this, but have quietly accepted that this is how things are. I would argue that vast majority of gamers simply don't care. The fact that this game continues to be popular despite weeks of your valiant effort suggests as much.

Yeah, a game contains an option that appeals to someone other than me. So what? I'm not as self-centered as to expect every aspect of a game to be tailored specifically for me. If the game is good, I will have my fun and other people will have their fun. Everyone is having fun, everyone is happy, and life is good.

Some people only surround themselves with individuals that share their views, and visit spaces where they only interact with such individuals. Then it gives them the impression that 90% of everyone share their opinion because "everyone I know thinks the same as I do". It's called an echo chamber. Consider that you may be in one.

[Lex Roman]

Originally posted by Ellydir:

I think you're making a lot of assumptions.

The number of gay / bi / trans gamers that I know is about comparable to the number of chuds I've seen on this forum. Not really a micro portion. Are they a minority in the wider gaming community? Sure. But so are you.

Yet you're assuming that the vast majority of gamers share your opinions on this, but have quietly accepted that this is how things are. I would argue that vast majority of gamers simply don't care. The fact that this game continues to be popular despite weeks of your valiant effort suggests as much.

Yeah, a game contains an option that appeals to someone other than me. So what? I'm not as self-centered to expect every aspect of a game to be tailored specifically for me. I will have my fun with the game, other people will have their fun with the game. Everyone is having fun, everyone is happy, and life is good.

Some people only surround themselves with individuals that share their views, and visit spaces where they only interact with such individuals. Then it gives them the impression that 90% of everyone share their opinion because "everyone I know thinks the same as I do". It's called an echo chamber. Consider that you may be in one.

It's about choice that shouldn't exist on an established character. Not even taking the fact that the player is not Henry as Henry is what he is as created by the devs in the first game.
You play as him, but you are not him and he is not you. So you wanting to play as a gay or straight character is irrelevant. Henry, is not gay therefore the choice should not be there.

It has nothing to do with gay people being in the game.
If the player being able to play as a gay character was the intention, they should have create a new character with these traits instead of using Henry who is established as a straight male.

Im pretty sure most gamers don't care which is exactly why the gaming industry is on the verge of collapse because checking boxes these days is more important than creating good games.

Also, for me personally. The number of gay gamers i know is about.. 0;
So it's not that black and white.

So, i have no illusion that most gamers will stand with me on this. I know they won't and for me personally that doesn't matter.
I have chosen not to support pro DEI companies anymore and thus will not buy this game.

I know you will not understand and i don't really care. It has nothing to do with being self-centered or being against gay people.
They changed immutable character traits. That is incredibly bad design in story telling.
That is my issue.
But im sure you're in the "it's just a choice" camp so lets leave it at that.