I've got a question on Kuttenberg!!

[MayMousie]

I understand that the city is massive for the 15th century, but wasn't Paris bigger at this time?? Or am I wrong for comparing a capital to like, a second capital??

[MayMousie]

Originally posted by Bordric:

Originally posted by MayMousie:

Right, I didn't think of that. Thanks!!

But you know in 1400 the Black Death was still very much an impact in France and probably Bohemia also. It was devastating. Whole towns depopulated including Prague and Paris so assume Kuttenberg also.

Wow, I didn't know that. I thought it was gone by the 1360s.

[MayMousie]

Originally posted by Philippe_at_bay:

To use an American analogy, it's probably Kuttenberg = New York and Prague = Washington.

Okay lol, thanks

[Bordric]

Originally posted by MayMousie:

Originally posted by Bordric:

But you know in 1400 the Black Death was still very much an impact in France and probably Bohemia also. It was devastating. Whole towns depopulated including Prague and Paris so assume Kuttenberg also.

Wow, I didn't know that. I thought it was gone by the 1360s.

Sure it was by 1360 but it wiped out as much as 50% of the population so even 2 generations later were not going to recover that lost.

[MayMousie]

Originally posted by Bordric:

Originally posted by MayMousie:

Wow, I didn't know that. I thought it was gone by the 1360s.

Sure it was by 1360 but it wiped out as much as 50% of the population so even 2 generations later were not going to recover that lost.

Damn. Yeah, I don't bother to look into that stuff. I don't even really think about it either. I'm more of an Arts nerd. Music, fashion, architecture. That's my cup of tea. So, I just assumed everyone was fine and dandy by the 1360s.

[Bordric]

Originally posted by MayMousie:

Originally posted by Bordric:

Sure it was by 1360 but it wiped out as much as 50% of the population so even 2 generations later were not going to recover that lost.

Damn. Yeah, I don't bother to look into that stuff. I don't even really think about it either. I'm more of an Arts nerd. Music, fashion, architecture. That's my cup of tea. So, I just assumed everyone was fine and dandy by 1360.

It did change the world for common people because their labor was worth far more because of the lack of people. Whole villages die and decayed away. England even tried to force labor cost caps. But they didn't work because the lords and land owners their land worked and paid anyway. Changed Europe for good. I bet it impacted arts and architecture also.

Anyway it is an interesting subject.

[frosti]

Kuttenberg was something like a 15th century Dubai or Singapore.

[smoketrees]

Originally posted by frosti:

Kuttenberg was something like a 15th century Dubai or Singapore.

Not sure about that. They were built around trade whilst Kuttenburg was built around mining.

[Philippe_at_bay]

There are no statistics before the late 19th century (which is probably a good thing because they're all lies anyway).

Having said that, mortality in western Europe was probably a lot lower than most internet denizens want to imagine. There are a few villages in southern England (and possibly northern Italy) that seemed to have really high mortality (50-90%). but that could just as well be the result of the settlement being more or less abandoned before the next census.
Don't believe what you read on the internet, the subject is really complicated and the data very sparse. What is clear is that it had an enormous impact on economics, labour, and social change.

If you want to get a sense of what it was like, you're better off looking at Froissart (and noticing that everything still sort of continues to functionafter the hiccup), rather than Boccaccio. And remember that there were lots of little outbreaks for decades after.

Most of what I've read suggests that a society tends to freak out when mortality gets above ten to fifteen percent. People encountering this stuff for the fist time tend to cherry-pick the bigger numbers for shock value.

[Bordric]

Not looking at it for the first time or for shock value. All you have to do is look at labor laws that tried to stop the run away cost of labor itself in Italy to England to see how devastating it was. Froissart was hardly the only chronicler during the period, in fact it happend while he was a child and teen. Jean Le Bel and Machaut lived as adults during the age.

Entire towns died and it was not because they got a better job across the country.

[<I^_^]I_1C3Qu33n_X33_I[^_^]>]

Originally posted by MayMousie:

I understand that the city is massive for the 15th century, but wasn't Paris bigger at this time?? Or am I wrong for comparing a capital to like, a second capital??

Kutná Hora(CZ)/Kuttenberg(GER)
located in Central Bohemian Region Czech Republic. Kutná Hora center, with Sedlec Abbey and ossuary, the city became a Heritage Site in 1995 due architecture significance influence on Central European cities. in the Medieval era, Kuttenberg was mainly inhabited by German citizens ratio 80/20, German remarks are still visible throughout the whole city.