Why is there a man from Mali in the game?

[groovler]

The leaks would be take a ridiculous amount of effort to fake. Maybe the dialogue is fake, but that doesn't really matter.

Daniel Vavra needs to address this after his big talk about how there was definitely never a black person in Medieval Bohemia. This is a complete 180 on that claim, and it makes him look completely ridiculous after all his anti-woke talk.

[H-Foundry PIXIV]

If he actually said that, then it's best to wait and see after release, because he's showing two different sides.

It would be different if he never said anything as then there's nothing to really to point out and the game is as intended. There could be confirmation before then too but this is the sort of thing that wouldn't be confirmed or denied by the devs as it would show their cards (i.e. they got triggered into confirming "don't worry guys, no blacks" 🤣). I think that's the intention of the leaks, fake or not, they want to force a response either way.

[Sero]

Pretty sure he never made that claim. He sad that it would be period appropiate.

[Actalo]

Originally posted by Sero:

Pretty sure he never made that claim. He sad that it would be period appropiate.

Exactly, Vavra only mentioned black people in reference to their absence in rural Bohemia, a much more homogeneous area.

However, dunno how a Muslim from Mali would be allowed free reign in Kuttenberg, much less Bohemia at large. The Mali Empire had no trade routes to Central Europe or the HRE until the Hapsburg dynasty nearly a century later, which also controlled Spain.

Kuttenburg was really strict about who was allowed live and do business there. They didn't even allow Jews to live in the city, or even stay overnight - they had to do their business in the day and leave before dusk. There's just no way some rando Islamic dude from the Mali Empire is going to be hanging out there - so there would have to be some pretty far-fetched circumstances if he's there.

[groovler]

Originally posted by Sero:

Pretty sure he never made that claim. He sad that it would be period appropiate.

Originally posted by Actalo:

Originally posted by Sero:

Pretty sure he never made that claim. He sad that it would be period appropiate.

Exactly, Vavra only mentioned black people in reference to their absence in rural Bohemia, a much more homogeneous area.

However, dunno how a Muslim from Mali would be allowed free reign in Kuttenberg, much less Bohemia at large. The Mali Empire had no trade routes to Central Europe or the HRE until the Hapsburg dynasty nearly a century later, which also controlled Spain.

Kuttenburg was really strict about who was allowed live and do business there. They didn't even allow Jews to live in the city, or even stay overnight - they had to do their business in the day and leave before dusk. There's just no way some rando Islamic dude from the Mali Empire is going to be hanging out there - so there would have to be some pretty far-fetched circumstances if he's there.

"would you please explain to me whats racist about telling the truth? There were no black people in medieval Bohemia. Period." 2/22/15 6:33 PM

Yeah, a black man from Mali being present is so far-fetched it might as well be impossible, but if Warhorse decided to go full Ubisoft then it's not far-fetched that they forced this to appease their publisher or the game media.

The leaked dialogue seems fake because it's too ridiculous (saying how Mali is safer and women have more rights...), but it depicts him as "Musa of Mali", a "scholar, explorer and physician". If it's real it's truly Ubisoft-tier.

There were trade routes between Mali and the Moors via the Sahara, and it wasn't people walking the whole way across but people dropping it off to the next stop, and it being carried over. Same way you didn't have Chinese and Romans walking the silk road to trade, that's now how it worked at all.

The only significant trade I saw between Bohemia and the Muslim world was in the 1000s to 1100s, selling slavic pagan slaves to the Moors in Spain. But that did not mean you had Moors walking across Europe to go pick them up.

[Sero]

Putting something into quotes does not make it proof.
It's also TEN YEARS OLD.

But I have to agree that it does sound very much like ragebait.

[groovler]

Originally posted by Sero:

Putting something into quotes does not make it proof.
It's also TEN YEARS OLD.

You can literally copy paste it to find the original tweet instead of lying: https://x.com/danielvavra/status/569686445344079872

I fail to see the relevancy of it being TEN YEARS OLD!?!?!?, he made the statement, he delivered a game that is true to that statement, and he not done or said anything since that statement to suggest he's changed his mind.

As for the leaks themselves, real or not, it's clear they're being posted as rage bait. It's the perfect troll really. If it's real, then people claiming the leak is fake will look silly and will be made fun of. If it's fake, they pissed a lot of people off and made a lot of people worried about the game's direction. It also puts Warhorse in a really awkward position, but the best they can do in this situation is say "the leak is fake" and leave it at that.

[uglyface2]

Originally posted by groovler:

The leaks would be take a ridiculous amount of effort to fake.

I'm told the images were sourced from 4chan. If someone there wanted to fake convincing images, believe me, they'd put in the work.

[masii07]

One black person in the thousands of people in game you see can ruining an experience? Even a minor interaction 🤔.

Funny I met a black person late in STALKER 2, in depths of UKRAINE, and I knew it would trigger some 🤣.

[groovler]

Originally posted by uglyface2:

Originally posted by groovler:

The leaks would be take a ridiculous amount of effort to fake.

I'm told the images were sourced from 4chan. If someone there wanted to fake convincing images, believe me, they'd put in the work.

These days there are all sorts of tools for detecting fakes. There are also three images of this dialogue, each with a different pose and facial expression. If it was one image I'd be more likely to dismiss it as fake, but you don't AI generate consistent images like this.

Originally posted by masii07:

One black person in the thousands of people in game you see can ruining an experience? Even a minor interaction 🤔.

Funny I met a black person late in STALKER 2, in depths of UKRAINE, and I knew it would trigger some 🤣.

You might not have the capacity to feel, understand or possess integrity or principles but they are a thing that exist. But you're not arguing in good faith here, you don't have the intellectual capacity or honesty for such a conversation.

[TreeTrunk]

I'm sure it will still be an excellent game whether there is a Mali person in there or not.

[voyagerroad]

imagine being triggered by a black person potentially being in a game

[restarter]

Seriously? Your willful ignorance is at a whole new level. Look at a map

[Thorstorm]

Originally posted by voyagerroad:

imagine being triggered by a black person potentially being in a game

*historical game

Fixed that for you.

Imagine imagining.

[Feels]

because he sold his company to a publicly traded holding, thats about it.

[groovler]

Originally posted by TreeTrunk:

I'm sure it will still be an excellent game whether there is a Mali person in there or not.

These sorts of things quite preindicate a game having issues, and if they add a dude from Mali then in their minds it's not far fetched to have many more people from West Africa, and hell why not India and China? It's nearly as plausible.

Originally posted by voyagerroad:

imagine being triggered by a black person potentially being in a game

Personally I like my games to be historical, and I like it when devs stick to their word rather than capitulating after years of controversy, especially in such a blatantly finger-wagging way where this Musa of Mali tells Henry that Mali is safer than Bohemia and women are treated better.

Originally posted by restarter:

Seriously? Your willful ignorance is at a whole new level. Look at a map

I am looking at Mali, and I am looking at Czechia, they are very far away. I am also looking for sources and found 0 referencing Sub-Saharan Africans in the HNR or Bohemia in this period.

Originally posted by Feels:

because he sold his company to a publicly traded holding, thats about it.

Which makes all his cuckservative ranting even more pathetic. He's criticized other studios and games for being "woke", yet here we are.