How to fix stealth / thievery?

[VongolaXth]

In almost EVERY game where you can play stealthy or you're able to steal (pick pocket / lock picking), the mini games are TOO easy, you get TOO much value and the stealth features / systems are TOO easy too.

How can we fix that? I know its not that easy but... I am always disappointed. I love to play stealthy and to steal stuffs... That it is better in terms of value than not playing like that is ok for me but in games like this its just WAY too broken. Steal the keys and you can easily be rich instantly within a few seconds.

Maybe not everyone is having their keys on them ALL the time? Maybe they hide the keys on shelves or under beds or idk and you need to actively look for them? Maybe the minigames are way harder with several more instances like.. first you need to sneak behind them, activate the "stalk motion" which needs a QTE to work and if you fail they hear you and "slowly" turn around (not all the time sometimes they look instantly seeing you stalking and trying to steal). The next step is the minigame we know about "holding" a button which adds more time and then you have the other step we already have but this is harder because there are holes in the pockets or there are stones in the way and you can't do a full loop but you need to get back the other way because the stone is blocking the way towards the left side of the "exit". Or because they're moving the items move too and if you don't watch out you might grab something the moment it moves to another slot which then makes the person feel your fingers. Lock picking needs some new systems too like.. very easy to normal locks are just like we know but the harder ones add one new thing like you need not only turn the pin and the lock but you need to do something with W / S too? I don't know..

They're just ideas but idk... It even could be a system you can turn off and on. Some might not like to have a challenge and thats ok they're fine with pressing one button and loot everything but for those that want more they can turn on the harder version..

Right now stealth and thievery is TOO easy and TOO rewarding. You even level up pickpocketing and lockpicking the same time no? In KCD1 they were 2 different skills right?

I don't want to play a good game "aggressively" or without armor to have a challenge. I want to be stealthy and steal stuffs but still have some kind of challenge. Like.. add a system where even if they "only" saw you inside their private rooms they add the locks to everything AND they're minimum hard (which then activates the new step you need to do if we were to add that). Or guards seeing you wearing typical thief stuffs are going to have a very high chance to ask you to open your bags for them.

I am not only talking about KCD here but in general. Every game with stealth / thievery is way too easy with this playstyle. I know its a good feeling thats why I really like to play that way but with each year the games get easier and easier and easier with this playstyle.


Sorry for the long text but I just needed to write this to vent a lil bit and go back to KCD2 and steal more stuffs..

[theo]

It's only easy when you save scum.
Stuff like shoplifting irl is equally easy but there's a chance you get caught and the fact that you cannot just load a save changes everything

[VongolaXth]

Originally posted by theo:

It's only easy when you save scum.
Stuff like shoplifting irl is equally easy but there's a chance you get caught and the fact that you cannot just load a save changes everything

To be honest, I do that "sometimes" but its rare for me to do that. But yes you're right, doing that negates the challenge and the concequences. But even then. After just a few hours leveling up a few times and focusing on the proper clothing, you can easily sneak into houses at night, steal the keys, go to the chest, open them, take all the stuff out, be rich. Then sleep a few days and its not even stolen anymore.

Why is there NO nightguard walking around the stores? (Edit: There are patrols walking around at night but either they're not walking around the store or their frequency is way too low) They're all sleeping waiting for you to steal their keys. You can even walk around with a torch equipped. This annoys me too haha. Imagine someone walks around you on tiptoes and shines a light into your face.

I don't think you truly think stealth / thievery is hard in this one or well, in general in most games.

[WastedTrojan]

Originally posted by theo:

It's only easy when you save scum.
Stuff like shoplifting irl is equally easy but there's a chance you get caught and the fact that you cannot just load a save changes everything

It's just easy. I only got caught stealing one time in my whole playthrough and that was after the fact because i was wearing a ring that I stole.

[Actalo]

Here's some ideas I had for overhauling Stealth:

- Cap Noise, Conspicuousness, and Visibility reductions for clothing to 35 (KCD2: <10).
- Make all low visibility clothing have higher conspicuousness.
- Increase NPC FOV to more realistic range like 120-180 (KCD2: 90-100).
- Increase minimum detection range to 5m (KCD2: 3m)
- All Stats and Skills capped at 20 (KCD2: 30)
- Increase NPCs reaction to unlocked doors, chests.
- Make sneaking a potential crime, possibly incur search.
- Increase 'search time' after suspicious activity.

I think players who want a challenge, forget about the players who don't. Go into KCD Steam forums, it's nothing but complaints about the game being tedious, broken, and unnecessarily difficult. I think a lot of players enjoy a more casual experience.

Most players don't test the limits of the game to figure out exploits, break the game, then lament how easy its become. If you want to make the game more challenging for yourself, and you already kinda know what's wrong, then make a mod to close those loophole, make the game "better".

[RawDawg]

It is a bit easy. I can stand over you whilst you sleep and steal your pillow. You would never know I was there.

[makbthemf]

Originally posted by VongolaXth:

How can we fix that?

Try KCD1 - much better stealth gameplay on hardcore.

[bijsmaak]

Originally posted by theo:

It's only easy when you save scum.
Stuff like shoplifting irl is equally easy but there's a chance you get caught and the fact that you cannot just load a save changes everything

Agree. There is so much randomness that can make you fail pickpocketing or stealing stuff. Save scumming makes it easier.

I don't do too much stealing and pickpocketing because I think the rewards are too unbalanced. They should make it much harder to sell expensive stolen items.